Blackmagic Fusion out today. Same pricing as Resolve.

[Andy Jarosz]

Yeah, I'm working a lot in Resolve and it has a basic form of nodes compared to VFX (which can get a lot more complicated), but does Fusion 7 at this moment have anything that really improves it over AE on top of that? They did use AE for films like Gone Girl, so AE is still quite powerful, but I get that it's not an optimized system for pure film post production and rather aimed more at motion graphics, but I haven't tried Fusion yet and it's an entire change in infrastructure to change into that with plugins etc. so it would be nice to hear if anyone who has experience with both could say something about what the benefits and drawbacks are with Fusion 7 compared to AE.

For general purpose work, no. A layer based software vs. a node based software doesn't matter that much.

When you get into BIG effects shots, eventually you hit a point where a node graph is just easier to follow and dive into at any point, as opposed to having to twirldown layers. There are films nowadays that use thousands of nodes.

It's also easier to copy and paste a section of nodes for re-use then layers.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

FWIW guys, Nuke has a free but limited version coming early next year. The real news with this is full Fusion is now $995 or 1/5th what a full seat cost just a few months ago. So it will be interesting to see what the Foundry does with Nuke pricing. I'm also hoping that Adobe will step up its game with AE. AE has always been a capable tool, but lacking in the hardware acceleration and optimization department and it's been pretty low-rent in terms of specialized abilities.

This is huge... I haven't used Fusion for a few years now, been on AE and Nuke, but hmmm... May have to check out the free version to see what's changed and if the pricing makes more sense to go with the $995 edition now. If it's like Resolve where it's been a one-time buy and continuous upgrades, the purchase price is a no-brainer.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Yeah, I'm working a lot in Resolve and it has a basic form of nodes compared to VFX (which can get a lot more complicated), but does Fusion 7 at this moment have anything that really improves it over AE on top of that? They did use AE for films like Gone Girl, so AE is still quite powerful, but I get that it's not an optimized system for pure film post production and rather aimed more at motion graphics, but I haven't tried Fusion yet and it's an entire change in infrastructure to change into that with plugins etc. so it would be nice to hear if anyone who has experience with both could say something about what the benefits and drawbacks are with Fusion 7 compared to AE.

Don't know I have not seen Gone Girl just yet, but from reading a lot of of the workflow articles for that film I can't recall the word CG even ones. So I assume the AE stuff in gone girl was not so much about CG composting or composting in 3D space or dealing with depth que's or implementing 3D layers etc. I'm asuming it was more about composting different takes together, stabilizing shots and so on... simply put there was no big Godzilla monster running around destroying the city and so on. Finsher is more into to the subtile stuff, adding flares and normal pitcure enhancement stuff. Also I think it was of quite high interest from Adobe's side that it was done as it was... I know nothing about it but I could only imagine that there was money involved, and to me the workflow they used kind of showed more of the drawbacks of adobe than it's benefits. 2k Proxies, 5k subrender etc, etc.

There is still quite a leap for blackmagic to reach perfect. But having fusion and resolve at hand and develop from there with the horsepower they got th their R&D... I can only imagine that we will see fusion comps nested into resolve timelines with reach into separate layers, they allready have generation for comp updates and marying the two together is not to far fetched. I think Autodesk and Flame premium then would be the only competitor they got all that allready with the flame2015 / luster loop but at a 200k USD price tag... So I think the once that shake the most now is autodesk, any you can tell allready as they give away two seats of flame assist to everyone that buys a flame premium and they allready also put smoke on monthly subscription. And I can only think that they will drop the price for flame and put it on mac before years end... if they don't get the sales they want, which I allready kind of know that they don't. So as a flame artist I'm really happy to see this, it will make my annual costs fall like a rock

 

[Nick Shaw]

Fusion was never written for Mac. This is a product BM just bought recently and is just rebranding right now. However, they may make a mac version eventually.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/press/pressdetails?releaseID=61765

Grant Petty says they are working on a Mac version here:

http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=29406

 

[Dustin Cross]

Resolve + Fusion integration is gonna be awesome!!!! A few more timeline editing improvements and it will be hard to beat. Only thing missing will be audio...... Then we would have the full featured super post app we have all been dreaming of for years.


Dusty

 

[Scott Crawley]

Resolve + Fusion integration is gonna be awesome!!!! A few more timeline editing improvements and it will be hard to beat. Only thing missing will be audio...... Then we would have the full featured super post app we have all been dreaming of for years.


Dusty

Yes, it will. It is very exciting to dream about where they are headed.

OTOH, while I was completely thrilled to be able to do simple editing tasks in Resolve on my last project, I can't imagine trying to do a complete edit in there. I think they have a way to go yet.

 

[Mike P.]

Race to the bottom, right guys!

Seriously though, as soon as it becomes a little more integrated with Resolve, it'll be some seriously delicious software to contend with.

 

[Mike Harrington]

I'm not at all familiar with Fusion, but how good will this be when the new release of Element3D for After Effects features a a lot of advanced radiosity and shadows for 3D compositing in real time?
I'm not sure in what way Fusion is better than AE, can someone give some examples of processes that you gain by using Fusion?

Element almost brings what Fusion has hgad for a while into AE....

Element has no radiosity....just ambient occlusion...which fusion also has.
Element has no raytracing reflections but has simulated reflections using a reflection image. The same is done in fusion using a 6 camera rig in a spherical pattern to create a reflection image on the fly.
Element does it easier...but one just needs to make a macro in fusion.

Fusion has free 3rd party rendering as well using 3delight renderer....which does have true global illumination and raytracing
http://reichofevil.wordpress.com/2013/12/02/more-progress/

Fusion can also plug into any renderman renderer....although that requires quite a bit of effort....more studio level expertise

Fusion is a true 3d workspace...no precomping...no limitations. You can import animated geometry cache (MDD) not just obj sequences.
People have made custom importers for particles...krakatoa etc etc

You can import animated scenes from almost any 3d package, FBX, Allembic, etc etc

Fusion is very easy to make custom tools using fuses...which can all be openCL accelerated

Fusions native keyer will kill keylight in AE....it also comes with primatte as well.
And you can get the free fuse (type of macro) for the 'kick ass keyer' KAK...modeled after Nukes IBK, but IMHO much better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y13zIucKkYM


I have used both for years...AE for all my quick and dirty stuff....Fusion for anything serious

AE with element, particular, primatte, plexus comes close to being able to do what fusion does natively...

this is done with NATIVE Fusion tools....no plugins needed
http://reichofevil.wordpress.com/?s=water

the only real drawback is lack of VC optical flares for fusion...but I bet that is on its way

good video of volume tools and workflow in fusion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOpN6C3ZrjY&list=UUXvQUhNnfSCvBPvP43xnOmg