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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

BlackMagic Decklink Extreme 3d: Impressions

Tom.Wong

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Ok, so the BM card has been brought up a lot, and the company has a miserable reputation for be the "cheap product" and pretty much being that. I've used older BM before when I was still an an assistant for FCP and Avid, so we did a lot of capture, and laying off to tape. Had to be timecode, frame accurate and I dabbled in using it in conjunction with Apple Color. The card was everything everybody says it was. It sucked, told management to get a kona 3 over it, never looked back.

Fast forward to now, and the new card is out, technology has changed, software has changed, and this is a integral piece for the upcoming Resolve. There isn't a lot of info on the Extreme card, and a lot of people are still questioning it's functionality.

So this is just a small write up with what I've experienced with it, and I hope it helps at least one person. First and foremost, if you need to do deck control, capture, and framerate/resolution conversions. Go Kona, don't look anywhere else for your Apple workflow. AJA has prided itself in that market for a reason, it works, it works great.

Now my purpose of picking up the BM, is that I really wanted to offer up a accurate Color Grading solution on top of my freelance edit suite. So I didn't need all the bells and whistles of a kona, and the decisions were down to the LHI and BM. BM was chosen for it's 2k playback, and the fact that it was a few hundred dollars cheaper. I wanted to give it a chance, and wanted to pay off some bills that month :)

My current setup,

Mac Pro 2.93 ghz, 2009 Nehalem
Snow Leopard
16 gb ram
ATI 4870
Firmtek 4 port ESATA
BM Decklink Extreme 3d
AJA hpd2
HP DREAMCOLOR



First thing, hdmi from decklink to dreamcolor doesn't work, you'll get a picture but it will stay on the monitors native resolution which is a 16:10 aspect, and will stretch your footage. And it doesn't feel like the HDMI out of the BM is a true RGB progressive signal, as the colors were WAY off too, even after calibration.

So if you want just direct from HDMI I suggest going LHI or the new kona coming out.

If somebody else has that working please chime in. I couldn't.

720p signal is a little wonky, doesn't put out 23.98 has to convert to 59.94, which is fine and expected, it's not an official broadcast signal.

720p 29.97 kept me on a frozen frame, still trying to figure that one out... It's annoying.

all flavors of 1080 working great, apple color with it, working great. set my hdp2 to put out smpte 0-255, and to deep color.

the picture look great, love the monitor, graded on several projects already without a hitch, all 1080 stuff, and r3d native stuff in color. Follow your whitepapers, keep up to date on firmware, calibrate your monitor. Threw up some of my projects on blu ray on my Samsung 55 LED TV. Looks great, looks right. I don't feel like there are any color inconstancies other than what the television is incapable of doing when it came to the shadows, but saturation and color was spot on.

I'll probably try some HDMI capture later on and will update this every now and then the more I use the card. As for color inconstancies like the old card, I'm not seeing it. As for it being the most rock solid thing, well it isn't, but it's doing what I want it to do just fine, and for a very reasonable price. My 2 cents.
 
Thanks for the report. BM really needs to fix that HDMI output. The specs say it supports 10-bit output on the HDMI slot-filler. Shouldn't need to use an AJA converter to get a decent output to a dreamcolor. I can't be the only one who wants to use a dreamcolor for DaVinci Resolve.
 
Ok, so the BM card has been brought up a lot, and the company has a miserable reputation for be the "cheap product" and pretty much being that. I've used older BM before when I was still an an assistant for FCP and Avid, so we did a lot of capture, and laying off to tape. Had to be timecode, frame accurate and I dabbled in using it in conjunction with Apple Color. The card was everything everybody says it was. It sucked, told management to get a kona 3 over it, never looked back.

Fast forward to now, and the new card is out, technology has changed, software has changed, and this is a integral piece for the upcoming Resolve. There isn't a lot of info on the Extreme card, and a lot of people are still questioning it's functionality.

So this is just a small write up with what I've experienced with it, and I hope it helps at least one person. First and foremost, if you need to do deck control, capture, and framerate/resolution conversions. Go Kona, don't look anywhere else for your Apple workflow. AJA has prided itself in that market for a reason, it works, it works great.

Now my purpose of picking up the BM, is that I really wanted to offer up a accurate Color Grading solution on top of my freelance edit suite. So I didn't need all the bells and whistles of a kona, and the decisions were down to the LHI and BM. BM was chosen for it's 2k playback, and the fact that it was a few hundred dollars cheaper. I wanted to give it a chance, and wanted to pay off some bills that month :)

My current setup,

Mac Pro 2.93 ghz, 2009 Nehalem
Snow Leopard
16 gb ram
ATI 4870
Firmtek 4 port ESATA
BM Decklink Extreme 3d
AJA hpd2
HP DREAMCOLOR



First thing, hdmi from decklink to dreamcolor doesn't work, you'll get a picture but it will stay on the monitors native resolution which is a 16:10 aspect, and will stretch your footage. And it doesn't feel like the HDMI out of the BM is a true RGB progressive signal, as the colors were WAY off too, even after calibration.

So if you want just direct from HDMI I suggest going LHI or the new kona coming out.

If somebody else has that working please chime in. I couldn't.

720p signal is a little wonky, doesn't put out 23.98 has to convert to 59.94, which is fine and expected, it's not an official broadcast signal.

720p 29.97 kept me on a frozen frame, still trying to figure that one out... It's annoying.

all flavors of 1080 working great, apple color with it, working great. set my hdp2 to put out smpte 0-255, and to deep color.

the picture look great, love the monitor, graded on several projects already without a hitch, all 1080 stuff, and r3d native stuff in color. Follow your whitepapers, keep up to date on firmware, calibrate your monitor. Threw up some of my projects on blu ray on my Samsung 55 LED TV. Looks great, looks right. I don't feel like there are any color inconstancies other than what the television is incapable of doing when it came to the shadows, but saturation and color was spot on.

I'll probably try some HDMI capture later on and will update this every now and then the more I use the card. As for color inconstancies like the old card, I'm not seeing it. As for it being the most rock solid thing, well it isn't, but it's doing what I want it to do just fine, and for a very reasonable price. My 2 cents.
I had installed the card as a part of Resolve install. I fed Panasonic TH-58PF12UK 58" plasma display with HDMI output, as well as YUV component and SDI output with the help of HDLink. All 3 outputs work perfectly right out of the box.
 
I think the BM cards still only put out a YUV signal and not a progressive RGB one the Dreamcolor needs. When fed a YUV signal the Dreamcolor can't use its hardware calibration and will just display all the colors it can - which means they are way off. So you need a AJA HDSDI to HDMI converter for that.

The AJA LHi can in the meantime display 2k, it was a software upgrade that came out recently. Still happy with that card but might have to change to BM as well for Resolve.
 
Good to know the hdmi isnt completely useless, but for dreamcolor, no rgb no good. Im gonna be getting rid of the hdmi anyway. Killing a slot in the back isnt worth it to me. Got the bm before the lhi got the update, so mute point now. But my main point is, sdi wise, it gives an accurate signal and i havent experienced any serious issues with it. Light years improvement over last model, and hooefully they'll have a firmware update for the hdmi so it spits out rgb instead of yuv and save people 600 bux. Fyi people still get hdp2 if they need to have interlaced or sd footage on their timeline. As i get in mixed formats constantly, i dont regret anything i have. Unless it epic fails, then ill be trash talking it till the end of my days....
 
Is it possible to take SDI out of Decklink into HDLink and than HDMI out of HDLink to Panasonic plasma? Will this give 10bit signal to plasma? I'm considering buying Decklink Extreme HD and HDLink but I've read some pretty disturbing posts about it so I'm no longer sure. We have 2 BM resellers in the area, one told me that this setup is correct and will give 10bit signal and the other one told me that in order to get 10bit signal the HDMI must be able to carry 10bit signal which it says it can but they can't confirm it! And BM says that HDLink supports HDMI out but via DisplayPort adapter or DVI-D adapter! Wtf?! So you can have HDMI out of HDLink but you need adapter that's not included? Anyway, could this work then: 10bit SDI signal out of Decklink -> HDLink -> 10bit out od HDLink Displayport -> somekind of DisplayPort-HDMI adapter (keepeing 10bit) -> Panasonic plasma HDMI input?
 
Is it possible to take SDI out of Decklink into HDLink and than HDMI out of HDLink to Panasonic plasma? Will this give 10bit signal to plasma?

Yes and yes. Assuming the Plasma actually supports 10-bit over HDMI, of course. On consumer sets, this usually shows up in the specs as "deep color" support.
 
What option is better then: HDLink Pro with DVI-D out and then with DVI-D to HDMI adapter or HDLink Pro 3D with DisplayPort out and than DisplayPort to HDMI adapter? BM says that HDMI connection via included DVI-D male to HDMI Type A female adaptor is available for HDLink Pro but I haven't found DisplayPort to HDMI adapter. Also, HDMI Type A is 1.0 HDMI specification and HDMI FAQ says that HDMI v1.3 supports 10,12&16bit color as opposed to earlier versions that supported only 8bit:
"HDMI 1.3 supports 10-bit, 12-bit and 16-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 8-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification"
So, it seems that you can get the 10bit from Decklink into HDlink and out but it gets crippled to 8bit in converter?
 
The HDP2 converter is not crippling to 8 bit (even if the connector is DVI), and RGB progressive is needed for the Dreamcolor.
 
Ok, so the setup would be: Decklink/Kona SDI out -> HDlink SDI out -> HDP2 DVI-HDMI cable out -> Panasonic plasma? 10bit all the way, right?
 
We were just talking to figure out the difference. Thanks Nick.

The re-clocking is definitely a good thing for RED owners. Earlier BM cards had real problems with the SDI output from a RED.
 
Thanks. Was hoping that maybe the new HDMI would be compatible with the Dreamcolor. I think it is ridiculous to have to use an AJA box to get a 10-bit RGB progressive signal. I mean shouldn't the card itself be able to convert to RGB if the software program is using YUV?
 
Ok, so the setup would be: Decklink/Kona SDI out -> HDlink SDI out -> HDP2 DVI-HDMI cable out -> Panasonic plasma? 10bit all the way, right?

I use the HDP2 as well, but it is only a single link hd-sdi converter. so rgb in 10 bit sounds to me too much for a single link. But if you take the Hi5 3G which is the dual link 3g hd-sdi model, that converts to hdmi, this could deliver 10 bit rgb on hdmi i think.....
 
The HDP2 works fine for me with 10 bit RGB, it just won't do 1080p50. The Hi5 is not perfect for the Dreamcolor: not always true progressive, since it can't de-interlace. Not a problem with RED, but with cards that deliver PsF.
 
I mostly finish for broadcast so I think I'm ok with 10bit 444YUV, and HDP2 can manage 10bit 444YUV, right? Although, if Hi5 3G does 444RGB, then I can go with that and be safe. Thing that confuses me is Hi5 3G has HDMI out v1.3, but in specs its stated that it uses type A HDMI connector and according to HDMI FAQ type A&B connectors are v1.0 HDMI and type C is v1.3 HDMI, so it's unclear to me how can Hi5 3G output HDMI v1.3 via Type A connector(HDMI v1.0)?

EDIT: my local BM reseller suggested that I could take the 10bit signal from Decklink via SDI into HDlink and take simple DVI-D to HDMI cable like this one http://www.projectorsuperstore.com/product_details.cfm?aid=NexTag&productid=2022 and that would eliminate the need for Hi5 3G or HDP2 adapter. Can you please advise me on that suggestion since it doesn't really sound right as HDLink's DVI-D out is 8bit only, at least that's what BM representative wrote on Cow.
 
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Did the quality of these cards improve with the latest firmware updates? I just got one in this morning for Davinci Resolve config. I was planning on going the Dreamcolor route? Will I still need to get the HDP2?
 
Ok, so the setup would be: Decklink/Kona SDI out -> HDlink SDI out -> HDP2 DVI-HDMI cable out -> Panasonic plasma? 10bit all the way, right?

Wow is this really what it takes to monitor off a BM Decklink Extrme 3D+ to a Dreamcolor? Would I have to purchase two new devices just to get this to work?
 
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