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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Black sun

regardless - producers won't like this - the other day a producer discussing the strobing split frame thing responded with "I thought all this digital technology was supposed to make things easier". Producers don't like post fixes and i don't as a cameraman want to spend time correcting footage before I hand it over.

Plus - does black taper well? not IMVHO. the centre of the sun is always going to be white on current systems - including film (unless late sunset shots) - why make it black? - whats the benefit?
 
jtm said:
regardless - producers won't like this - the other day a producer discussing the strobing split frame thing responded with "I thought all this digital technology was supposed to make things easier". Producers don't like post fixes and i don't as a cameraman want to spend time correcting footage before I hand it over.

Plus - does black taper well? not IMVHO. the centre of the sun is always going to be white on current systems - including film (unless late sunset shots) - why make it black? - whats the benefit?
Click to expand...

The point is, if it can't be made to look good, then make it easy to select.
 
ibloom said:
The point is, if it can't be made to look good, then make it easy to select.
Click to expand...

100% agree. ibloom is right on this one ya'll.

I would LOVE to have the option to select the output of the sensor protect in a menu. Black or white? Your choice.

Then again, maybe it's time to fire up that copy of Color collecting dust on your hard drive and develop some new skills. :biggrin:
 
jtm said:
As i mentioned in my post I would place it right on the clip line or just under it. However if you're shooting against the sun it's very unlikely that you're going to be able to pull the exposure down sufficently to avoid it burning out and still get anything useful ot of the rest of the shot. Even on film it will generally exceed the contrast range and burn out at the centre.

either way, it's still better than black.
Click to expand...

Yes Clip levels around 98 would be best....but

Setting clip levels for video is a function of the RGB video control circuits… as in most video cameras.
I’m under the impression the Bayer CMOS sensor & RED One does not have video
control circuitry build in to the camera for clip levels….but it’s just an educated guess.
 
lordnumberzero said:
100% agree. ibloom is right on this one ya'll.

I would LOVE to have the option to select the output of the sensor protect in a menu. Black or white? Your choice.

Then again, maybe it's time to fire up that copy of Color collecting dust on your hard drive and develop some new skills. :biggrin:
Click to expand...

sure, for the people making stuff for themselves and prepared to roto footage - black dots are fine. But I work as a Commercials and drama cameraman and am positive that producers will NEVER screen stuff with a black hole where overbright pixels were meant to be but clip, on the other hand, is undesirable but acceptable.

Plus I understand post - despite the fact that rotoing out a black dot is possible and in some cases easy - why have it? why create the extra work? make it white and it becomes an aesthetic choice not an imaging problem.
 
THe issue is not the sun inthe sky itself wich can be easily removed, but the sun relfected in a chorme surface, or multiple reflexions, or windows, etc...

In the footage from the salt flats that you can download in HD at redrealy or redlab.es, you can see a shot with the 300mm of the hummer h3 that clearly show black dots on the bumper of the car. Not so easy to fix unless you open Shake.
 
macgregor said:
THe issue is not the sun inthe sky itself wich can be easily removed, but the sun relfected in a chorme surface, or multiple reflexions, or windows, etc...

In the footage from the salt flats that you can download in HD at redrealy or redlab.es, you can see a shot with the 300mm of the hummer h3 that clearly show black dots on the bumper of the car. Not so easy to fix unless you open Shake.
Click to expand...

Yes interesting...can you post the link to the Hummer footage?

It may be possible to assign proximity values to the corresponding picture areas that are over saturated with light levels via a software application …..
but can it be done in real-time?
 
thornben said:
Have you ever heard of tracking? Doing this is really easy, you could do it in Motion without any trouble.
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Hi,

Yes I have heard of tracking, I have been using it for over 15 years, I shoot a great deal of Motion Control. It used to be very expensive before the desktop revolution.

I am always uneasy when someone says it's really easy ... without any trouble. Been there too many times before.

Stephen
 
I can't replicate a black sun spot on my camera. I never saw the answer to the 1st question. Is this a new camera?

Looking into it...

Jim
 
"black" sun

"black" sun

Yeah, this whole thread is based on the statement that an intense bright light into the sensor will cause a black overflow condition. While it is true earlier firmware did do that, in Build 12 we included code to eliminate that as an issue. Can we confirm that it is or isn't fixed for other camera first? And if it isn't on a specific camera, can we understand which camera this is?

Send me a PM with the details if possible.

Thanks.
 
the black spot clip doesn't happen at 108 ire ... i haven't seen it on 103 yet ...
but then i don't shoot directly into the sun and i'm not going to go do a direct sun test ... i do have the sun in a few pans (18mm) and i'm not getting black ..also over the past week persons have been testing 103 and i've seen shots with the sun in the frame ( don't know lens mm) and no black spot but nobody has done a specific sun shot to check.
from what i recall on the earlier Reds is that it did not create the black spot when it clips at 108ire ... the only black spots i saw was from the sun & welding torch ...
 
I've never seen this, though i did see my camera do something else very weird. It's on Build 12 and I was at a knife manufacturer (actually a company that somehow does business with Oakley, weird connections) anyhow, I was filming a laser cutting thick stainless steal blades and this flare filled the whole screen for about a second that was unlike any flare I've ever seen. My AC laughed and said it "looked like Jesus was about to be here".
 
Shawn Nelson said:
I've never seen this, though i did see my camera do something else very weird. It's on Build 12 and I was at a knife manufacturer (actually a company that somehow does business with Oakley, weird connections) anyhow, I was filming a laser cutting thick stainless steal blades and this flare filled the whole screen for about a second that was unlike any flare I've ever seen. My AC laughed and said it "looked like Jesus was about to be here".
Click to expand...

Did the laser beam get reflected off the metal into the lens?

Does the design of the cutter even allow that?

Hope you were wearing eye protection.
 
Build 12 improves the condition tremendously.. its very hard to get the overflow dot now, and when you do see it its a near white (sometimes it has a slight purple tint).. but not black. we are experimenting with different settings to see what gives the best overall pleasing look.
 
I am pretty sure this was shot on my camera #172. Mac and I were shooting tests in downtown Memphis yesterday.

He will be able to fill you in with the details of lens and camera settings.

I do notice that when I try to shoot the setting sun and part of the foreground is really dark, that I can get a weird strobbing in the footage.

I will try to locate the original r3d file if anyone at Red would like to look at it.
 
interesting...

What i'd recc. is... leave the option as on/off both in post and on camera... but the camera should by default have it ON. and add purple for the almost over exposed areas.
when you take the footage in post... like on redcine... you can tell it to shut it off. and then... its upto you.. if you want to fix up the black stuff... then export to .dpx for ae or shake.

if you dont want to... well.. the black stuff isnt really there.. its just this option that is availble in your software or on your red lcd monitor that you can activate or de-activate. it is only burnt black on the footage when you litterally tell it to in redcine or fcp... *since fcp can read r3d files :D :D* hint hint. lol... heahaha.
________
Honda VF1000 specifications
 
aha - the plot thinnens - it seems that this is not something that is induced by the camera but a general artifact of the chip. apols - I thought this was a design feature.

In response to the earlier question - there is no filter per se that can eliminate this kind of thing holistically unless one is prepared to custom make spot grads (which on a tracking shot would be insane) and even then might not work.
 
jtm said:
unless one is prepared to custom make spot grads (which on a tracking shot would be insane).
Click to expand...

that, indeed, would be totally insane. just give us a bit more time, we are almost there.
 
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