Black shading at temp. WAHOO!!!

[paulherrin]

Al... every digital system has some amount of noise. It's not about how expensive it was, it's about the way the image is captured. Your 5D uses built in noise-reduction processing. Your RED let's you use higher-quality noise reduction in post, if necessary. Comparatively, the higher the resolution, the more noise gets picked up, rather than filtered out. The black shade is a part of the technology that helps reduce noise before it happens. These images are incredibly clean, all things considered. Still, I think there's less noise at 800 on my red than on my canon... you should be getting similar results.

 

[Andy White]

Your 5D2 and Scarlet are very different animals

There is a default Blackshade in 3 now (and a user stored one). You could have been using a bad blackshade and therefore getting poor results.

The 5D2 might be a still fullframe sensor, but it line skips and doesn't even record a full 1080P signal (there's a load of tech info all over the various forums on this - it's probably closer to 720P when it's finished) and, as it was designed as a stills camera first, it's sensor is tweaked for this. But you have the other side of the coin - the 5D2 heats up quickly when shooting video... and that video can become noisy. There's also a lot of inbuilt processes in terms of noise reduction and sharpening (even when settings are adjusted to be low/flat) that are applied to your image.

This is why the Scarlet is differently - you're recording a 4K sensor (without lineskipping etc) and without any 'in-camera' effects. Think of this like dealing with 35mm film... that you'd have to shoot/expose as you wanted and then develop and print the images. That's 3 stages - taking the shot and getting the correct exposures (etc), the neg itself (which could also be 'pushed' when developing) and then printing the image out.

Removing digital from your thought process and viewing the Scarlet as a film camera is an interesting way to look at it

The Scarlet is RAW and you're dealing with something that, at a minimum, should have a 1 light plus a quick grade.

There's a ton of stuff somewhere on this forum about the Sensor and how it works - but search via google (etc) as the site search is a bit rubbish.

BTW - how did the test shooting go the other day? Are you happier with the results now and getting an exposure on the goalposts that you're happy with?

 

[Scott Crawley]

What I don't understand is why an expensive camera like this has so much noise to begin with? My 5D2 is very clean certainly at ISO 320 and light noise ISO800.

It's a professional tool that gives you enough flexibility to either make it sing or fuck things up entirely. Scarlet is not making choices for you. You are more responsible for your results with Scarlet than with Canon video products.

 

[David Rasberry]

Red caters to pros. Part of that ethos is the expectation that pros will take the time and effort to learn how their cameras perform in detail and adopt procedures that produce the best results.
Consumer cameras like the Canons narrow the range of creative choice and automate things like balance between black shading, gain, and noise reduction in the background. Consumer cameras are used by pros, but most of the market for those cameras could care less about what is going on under the hood and don't want to have to deal with it.

 

[Lee Saxon]

Consumer cameras are used by pros, but most of the market for those cameras could care less about what is going on under the hood and don't want to have to deal with it.

Very true, and they'd definitely hurt themselves by making those customers learn all that crap.

And it doesn't just appy to camera operations. Every time I shoot with my hacked GH2 @ 150 Mbps and it doesn't even stress the hardware, I wonder why the factory bitrate is a sixth of that. It wouldn't make the camera harder to use. But it would make the footage harder to work with! iMovie can't handle that and half the GH2 market wants to plug their camera directly into a TV without using even iMovie.

What would be amazing is an "expert mode" like many software programs that "unhides" and "unautomates" certain options. It could even be hidden and require a special button sequence to prevent accidental activation.

 

[Philipe Ratton]

I really dont get the surprise, every time I read about black shading here in reduser it says it should be done at working temperatures.
Let it warm up and black shade, Let it warm up and black shade, Let it warm up and black shade, Let it warm up and black shade, Let it warm up and black shade

 

[Trevor Meeks]

I guess I've been a big complainer of noise recently since I've only had my Scarlet for a few days. First time out I did a black shade right after powering up and I experienced lots of unacceptable noise when shooting 2K 60FPS. Yesterday I let it warm up (43C?) then did a black shade and my footage at 2K 60FPS is noticeably cleaner! What I don't understand is why an expensive camera like this has so much noise to begin with? My 5D2 is very clean certainly at ISO 320 and light noise ISO800.

Your 5D2 is a consumer-level video capture DSLR... REDs are digital cinema cameras... This really shouldn't have to be explained to you. The 5D2 is doing a ton of noise reduction and other processing in-camera... and believe it or not, you'll still see increased noise levels as it heats up. You really can't complain if you have no idea what you're doing with the camera to begin with.

I really dont get the surprise, every time I read about black shading here in reduser it says it should be done at working temperatures.
Let it warm up and black shade, Let it warm up and black shade, Let it warm up and black shade, Let it warm up and black shade, Let it warm up and black shade

Word!