Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Birger Collimation.... Not Repeatable

Scott Miller

Scott Miller

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
1,192
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Carlsbad, Ca - San Diego/OC
OK, I watched Jay's video numerous times and very helpful, but....

Can't seem to see what/when/where to use the tape measure.

And I can't get the rotating ring to lock own. I used the larger, "outside" bolt, not effect. The smaller ones that retain the actual lens mount, not effect. The ring will still rotate no matter what I tighten/loosen.

And therein ( I think) lies the problem, I can not get the lens to collimate I also can not get it to repeat the same distance reading constantly. So I can if something that gets down to a small delta distance, then try it again and get different results, without pulling the lens.

(This is all using the Mac app, as I can not get the Impero to sync. Well, I got sync'd 1 time, then nothing. It turns on, clicks, solid light(s) but no reaction on the lens.)

The Mac app works and controls the lens fine, just not consistent/repeatable.

Even when I get the number/delta value low, there is a huge difference between the amount displayed focus distance.

That being said, very cool to be able to control the lens remotely:)
 
Hmmm. Well the rotating ring only truly locks down then the four outer bolts are tightened.

I use a different method for collimation which is a little more trial and error but it works. I put on the 11-16mm at 11mm and adjust the collimation so that infinity brings focus in properly on distant objects... 30 feet and beyond. Then I zoom to 16mm and see if focus held. If not I keep notes and make adjustments in both directions and note if things are getting better or worse at both focal lengths. Eventually focus holds well throughout the zoom range and I'm done. Every other lens is going to work from there unless a lens is out of whack.

My tokina is dead stopped on infinity when infinity is right. There's no "beyond infinity" like there is on almost every other Canon lens I have.

Note your successful settings carefully because the same settings will work or be very close after future mount swaps. Have fun!
 
I don't have either the Birger or the lenses you have, but does it necessarily work with non-Canon lenses? Remember the EF lens mount protocol is proprietary and unpublished. Every other brand lens (and lens mount) except for Canon's have reverse-engineered it. I haven't followed the Birger news closely, but it's possible you're the first person to try those specific lenses with your version of the Birger mount?

Anyway it sounds like the main issue you've got is mechanical, not electronic, and I have no idea what's happening there.
 
Joel,

I will try the infinity setup in the morning. Sounds like a good or even great idea.

JBeale,

I will also take a closer look and watch all 3 of the setup videos again jst to make sure I am not missing something. But I can not seem to get the ring to "lock". Maybe a bit of superglue :)

As for the actual lens, the Tokina 11-16 is already tested an rated in the "official" thread regarding lens tests with the Birger. I had hoped that the 2 brothers in the series would perform similarly. So far the thing I don't like is that the 16-50 does not have internal zoom (if that is the right term to use), i.e., the front element moves outward/away from the body, whereas the other 2 are internal focus/zoom. So use with a matte box will be less than optimal.

Scott
 
I'm having the same problems (or results) Scott. I believe that Jay (Dream Welder) has an older model of Birger Mount, perhaps that's why he has to tighten the four mount screws to spin his inner disc. The disc on my mount spins freely whether tightened or loose. However, if it spins when tightened, what's going to keep it from working itself back and forth during normal usage and transportation. Will that not knock the back focus off?

Another confusing item in Jay's video, is that he tells the viewer to write down the metric readings from his setup while collimating. It's almost certain those at home will have different readings.

Also, my metric readings stayed the same @ 100m (tight or wide) constantly. I had to give up because I was going nowhere.
 
My readings are different as well. I get X.XXm, and they do not relate to actual distances. Which I thought would matter. In fact that is what I thought the tape measure was for (although I have a non-metric unit:) )

Perhaps some more investigation tomorrow will show me how to lock down the ring. Of course I am supposed to go out and do some test footage with my new toy......
 
Scott Miller said:
My readings are different as well.
Click to expand...

Which readings you have is meaningless and have no effect on collimation. You just need some readings. I would suggest to measure one meter distance from the collimation chat within say 1cm accuracy and then start collimating. You will have difficulties to choose 1m distance from the lens with this accuracy, but it does not matter.

The ring must get locked when the screws are tighten. If not, it sounds like the ring is not out enough from the mount. That is, the screws tighten the ring --not the mount body-- to the camera body.

I posted at some point an Excel chart which guides the collimation process and minimizes the number of adjustments needed. Jay's manual adjustment process in the video is based on the brual force method. It does not have to be that labour process.
 
Lauri

Do you still have the XLS chart that you refer to?

And the ring then should be "proud" or actually stick out/be raised above the back plane or face of the mount? So then it gets locked down? He mentions it should be recessed or even with the face in the video.

I will give the "sticks out a bit" and infinity focus both a try this afternoon. After the ids go out to visit their aunt:) A little difficult to do ouch with little ones running around.
 
OK, so by backing the ring to till it interfered with the camera face, I was able to lock it down, and after a while able to collimate/back focus (whichever the correct term is, sorry).

But still can not get the Impero to see the Birger. The Birger is transmitting, as it will sync with the MacBook Pro and I can control the lens just fine. But wired or BT, the Impero will not control the lens. Wired, it will seem to sync, and ow can press the F or I button and et will light p, click but nothing on the lens.

Well, more reading to do.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions/guidelines. They gave me a good direction to head and get the lens working constantly.

Scott
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
To sync the Impero with the Birger in BT mode, long press the middle button of the Birger mount and wait until the lens is calibrated. Then press the cal button of Impero while F is selected and rotate the knob and you will see the focus ring starts to move.
Click to expand...

lauri,

this is not my experience at all. my mount and impero came with no real instructions but i've read on this forum and a few other places on syncing procedures. i simply pushed the "i" button as i powered up the impero wirelessly and it paired with the mount. the middle button on the mount only pertains to the calibration of the lens. and after that i usually hold down the function and cal buttons on the impero for a full, slow calibration.
 
Craig Schober said:
lauri,

this is not my experience at all. my mount and impero came with no real instructions but i've read on this forum and a few other places on syncing procedures. i simply pushed the "i" button as i powered up the impero wirelessly and it paired with the mount. the middle button on the mount only pertains to the calibration of the lens. and after that i usually hold down the function and cal buttons on the impero for a full, slow calibration.
Click to expand...

Craig, right, should have been more accurate. First of all, since my Impero and Birger works flawessly in all conditions with all my lenses, I've lost the track of whether have the latest software. Especially so, for I don't have a Mac and I guess, the Windows application is not yet there (and thus not able to control the mount by wire). Second, with my mount I have to press the middle button of the mount to get right distance readings. There after pressing cal from the Origo syncs the knob to the current position of the lens focus ring.
 
Joel Kaye said:
Huh? The distance to the focal plane is well known. Sigma and Tokina couldn't make lenses if they didn't know the proper distance to the film/sensor plane. Also, Canon publishes a SDK to talk to their cameras.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/c...ic&fcategoryid=314&modelid=7474&id=3464#SDKQ1

The Tokina 11-16mm is one that Birger has tested from fairly early on.
Click to expand...

Lens mount communication protocol, I think he means. AFAIK, it is reverse engineered by 3rd party manufacturers.
 
Last edited:
Now, what about Collimating WITHOUT the Impero? Focusing on your chart by hand and without the Impero will throw-off your calibration-- that's my understanding.
 
Charles Angus said:
Lens mount communication protocol, I think he means. AFAIK, it is reverse engineered by 3rd party manufacturers.
Click to expand...

Perhaps there is some reverse engineering required to make best use of the system but they offer CameraCommand_DriveLensEvf in their SDK which drives manual focus.

"The Canon Digital Camera SDKs comprise a set of APIs, DLLs, and static link libraries that provide an interface for accessing Canon digital cameras and data generated by Canon digital cameras.

EDSDK 2.6 Windows and Macintosh version support remote control, RAW image conversion and downloading from select EOS Digital SLRs with DIGIC 4, DIGIC III or DIGIC II processors released over the past four years, starting with the EOS-1D Mark II and continuing through to the EOS Rebel T1i."

So they clearly allow access to data sent by the camera too. I imagine that includes focus distance, aperture and focal length.

That's pretty much all Birger is accessing. However, I think he's had to do a lot of tweaking of his software to get it all to really work. Perhaps, based on the SDK, he was able to reverse engineer some stuff.


There's no doubt Canon is begging for people to develop software for their cameras and lenses as I see it.

Check this out:
http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/05/2...ly-with-your-canon-dslr-nikon-support-coming/
No manual focus yet, but there's live view on your iPhone. Damn.
 
Canon EF lens protocol

Canon EF lens protocol

Charles Angus said:
Lens mount communication protocol, I think he means. AFAIK, it is reverse engineered by 3rd party manufacturers.
Click to expand...

Correct. Certainly the mechanical specs are known, but the Canon SDK is just for talking to the cameras (eg. USB). The electrical pins on Canon EF lenses carry the proprietary Canon protocol. Apparently it is 8-bit Motorola SPI, but the specific structure, commands and data fields are not available from Canon, they have to be reverse-engineered. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF_lens_mount

For all I know the Birger mount works just fine with all the Tokinas and the problem lies elsewhere... I was just pointing out that you have a reverse-engineered lens talking to a reverse-engineered mount. As far as the accuracy of reverse-engineering, as I recall there have been a few Tokina and Sigma lenses which had to be re-chipped in order to talk to some newer Canon cameras (which were released after the lens was.) But all the genuine Canon lenses worked out of the box.

...also, with no published spec, you are working blind writing the embedded code. Each firmware version would have to be tested with every 3rd-party lens separately to guarantee compatibility, before release. Otherwise, it is quite possible for a lens that worked with an older version to not work with a later release.
 
I was able to get the BF done last night, as the sun dropped and lost light it all came into focus (pun intended).

But still having severe problems getting the Impero to consistantly sync. Did some test setups and shots today, worked like a charm for 3 hours, swapped lenses, quit talking.

But when it worked, everybody was impressed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top