"Biggest Advance in Camera Design"

[danbrazda]

http://www.redsharknews.com/technol...ail&utm_term=0_079aaa3026-9a9c193f37-77046133

I know there is more to this story than just the modular design but c'mon, doesn't Red deserve a mention at all in an article about "This could be the biggest advance in camera design in over a decade"?

 

[Vadim Bobkovsky]

Open Source, Modular, off-the-shelf sensors etc. is fine, I like it. Though RED deserves props for promoting the "add-on" philosophy, basically.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

4k DNG is a no go for me. Aaton did it and killed their Delta (I know their sensor problems but DNG is not usuable on a shooting set).

Pat

PS: Who would go shooting on production with an open source build without an officially RELEASED build?

 

[Vadim Bobkovsky]

PS: Who would go shooting on production with an open source build without an officially RELEASED build?

We're dissing open source now, really? Last time I checked a lot of proprietary software was equally "forever beta" and often buggy just like "the free software". Even worse, some companies actually had the nerve to demand top dollar for half-unusable apps.

 

[Martin Weiss]

tl;dr:

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

We're dissing open source now, really? Last time I checked a lot of proprietary software was equally "forever beta" and often buggy just like "the free software". Even worse, some companies actually had the nerve to demand top dollar for half-unusable apps.

Yes really. Volunteers, often anonymous ones, on open source projects have no one to answer to. In a commercial situation there is someone. In the relatively relaxed spheres of post and off-hours post experimentation some open source apps can be of great value. There is no hourly rate actors crew location etc. waiting around while you experiment.

But not to run a camera filming the only take of something that maybe cannot be repeated, ever. You want something that has been through all kinds of test benches, with a phone number when something goes wrong and someone at the other end who'se business depends on being cool with customers and keeping them happy. You want a name brand - Arri, Red, Sony etc. as "insurance". The one thing a set does not need is more risk and more things that can go wrong beyond the team's control. We already have weather and sleazy location owners for that. No matter how much you test alpha software, you never really know when it will let you down because as a user you are not the same as a testing facility.

I'd also say that I am not at all interested in spending more hours at work, tinkering with things when a solid solution already exists for doing the same thing and/or better that requires no work on my part. I only do that to get results I can't achieve any other way, like freaky moco rigs or unique light diffusers, camera moving robots, etc. I'm not looking for a way to have even shorter nights of sleep.

My Epic just works. You turn it on and it's ready to go. There's a LOT to be said for that.

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

tl;dr:

The probability that this is vaporware, and/or will have untold weird problems, like so many other kickstarter cameras before it, is very high indeed.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

I don't see how the design is any different than the Epic in terms of attaching modules to the back.

The basic concept is good though it would be nice if the most commonly used modules created a nice shoulder mount camera when assembled, but could also be stacked in different ways, even vertically, and even separated by cables. The SI2K with the Mini in front seemed like a good design too.

 

[Liam Hall]

The probability that this is vaporware, and/or will have untold weird problems, like so many other kickstarter cameras before it, is very high indeed.

That's what they said about RED.

 

[Steve Das]

The probability that this is vaporware, and/or will have untold weird problems, like so many other kickstarter cameras before it, is very high indeed.

So many other kickstarter cameras ?...Huh..fill us in on that. Digital Bolex was only one with any kind of support.
And seem to be making progress with a camera that is showing very un-DSLR like footage.

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/09/industry-professional-reviews-new-footage-from-digital-bolex/

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Yes really. Volunteers, often anonymous ones, on open source projects have no one to answer to. In a commercial situation there is someone. In the relatively relaxed spheres of post and off-hours post experimentation some open source apps can be of great value. There is no hourly rate actors crew location etc. waiting around while you experiment.

Do you know what LAMP means?

Go take a look at where you are right now.

http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=reduser.net

Reduser has always run on Apache httpd running on Linux.

Pure open source. It's what the damn *internet* runs on.

Don't BS me that open source is only fit for 'off-hours experimentation'. You're living in the past, the distant past. You sound like Microsoft FUD from the 1990s. And frankly, as someone who has been involved in open source development, you're being just a little insulting.

I've no idea if this camera project will be good, bad, or vaporware. But to use 'open source' as an insult against it is bad and wrong.

Mike

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Cool idea in concept. Some great things could come of this. But RED has already been doing the modular thing. And, my own bias, sometimes a "closed system," vis a vis Apple, offers more control over how well things work - and work together - than an "open" system where different hardware providers and software developers all have to work to a "standard" - which either cannot change readily (or it's not a standard) - or, when it does change, it potentially screws things up.

Time will tell. :huh:

 

[Solomon Nero]

I support any project motivated by passion, it only means that it will get better as they move on. That is why I bought into RED, cameras birthed of love and passion! 15 Stops of DR and global shutter...sounds like a lot of promise, but can they deliver?

I have had my eye on this project for a while, but I wonder if it will ever pan out.

 

[Milano Questa]

The probability that this is vaporware, and/or will have untold weird problems, like so many other kickstarter cameras before it, is very high indeed.

Just like Red

 

[Les Dittert]

Epic/Scarlet run Linux inside. So does Redmote.

Do you know what LAMP means?

Go take a look at where you are right now.

http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=reduser.net

Reduser has always run on Apache httpd running on Linux.

Pure open source. It's what the damn *internet* runs on.

Don't BS me that open source is only fit for 'off-hours experimentation'. You're living in the past, the distant past. You sound like Microsoft FUD from the 1990s. And frankly, as someone who has been involved in open source development, you're being just a little insulting.

I've no idea if this camera project will be good, bad, or vaporware. But to use 'open source' as an insult against it is bad and wrong.

Mike

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

Do you know what LAMP means?

Go take a look at where you are right now.

http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=reduser.net

Reduser has always run on Apache httpd running on Linux.

Pure open source. It's what the damn *internet* runs on.

Don't BS me that open source is only fit for 'off-hours experimentation'. You're living in the past, the distant past. You sound like Microsoft FUD from the 1990s. And frankly, as someone who has been involved in open source development, you're being just a little insulting.

I've no idea if this camera project will be good, bad, or vaporware. But to use 'open source' as an insult against it is bad and wrong.

Mike

It's not an insult - it's a conception of something different from a fixed entity with fixed capabilities, known to all on the camera team and the producer, with known levels of reliability and potential for failure.

And while we're hurling around insults, you sound like a hobby-ist who has never seen the challenges of a real pro set with lots of hired people on high hourly rates and has no real conception of what that's like and completely misses my point. I make my living on sets like that, in the present, not the past.

I could care less whether Red runs over Linux, Mac OS or has an Atari 2600 at the core - - it's been tested, my Epic is the same as hundreds of others, I know what it is, exactly what it can do and cannot, and so do my clients. Its' not some thing I cobbled together in my garage using a soldering iron or some guy did in his spare time with a kickstarter campaign. Who knows what that would be - maybe it would work great sometimes - but again, the point is it would be a complete unknown and thus not suitable at all for real, pro production. The probelm with "open source" is inherent per-unit variability which is the nature of the beast.

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

So many other kickstarter cameras ?...Huh..fill us in on that. Digital Bolex was only one with any kind of support.
And seem to be making progress with a camera that is showing very un-DSLR like footage.

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/09/industry-professional-reviews-new-footage-from-digital-bolex/

The Digital Bolex is several years late, the color science looks not so good, the dynamic range and highlight roll-off much worse than almost anything else out there. I think all this proves, - it's hard to make a good camera you can trust on a real set.

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

We are probably in the beginnings of this becoming very common. Just the beginnings, but 15 years from now...Look at what's happened in the last 2....

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Epic/Scarlet run Linux inside. So does Redmote.

That is a pretty stunning revelation if true.

It wouldn't necessarily be my OS of choice for a realtime DSP system like this.

Dare I ask for evidence?

Mike

 

[Robert Hart]

From vague recollection, the Apertus project in some form or another was being nurtured along at about the same time that Jim Jannard posted his wish-list invitations for the first Red One on dvinfo.net. It differed from Red in that it was developed around commercially available sensors. As sensors have evolved, the project engineering has been revised. Someone might correct me on this. The project as such is not immature.