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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Big news...

I had figured this was the case. I personally think it is the prudent choice to limit the amount of info about future product until you are in a position to deliver. That said, it was always fun when Jim would seemingly run out of the lab to post the newest details of what was going on...
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Was great to meet so many RED users today. That's always my favourite bit of NAB.

Graeme
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This. NAB is all about people.

That being said I think the announcements for Epic s35 customers is amazing and a welcome change of policy. for everyone else it's pretty much a non-announcement, hence the split in opinion. :)
 
I agree with both parties. though a good step for the future, it is disappointing from an outsiders view... Having watch this site for a while, finally, I was ready to join yesterday, I been waiting for a scarlet since 2008. I had the money ready with the hopes to pre-order. when no announcement came, it was gut wrenching. I think the hardest part was seeing the last week of those photos in San Francisco... Even though I'm still waiting, I now need to upgrade my camera to another system. so good or bad, I still like Red. just not as excited... but the ipad thing is cool.
 
Part of the issue here is that the Dragon program was not announced on Red user as a big deal (which it is), but sort of leaked here from people following the show. I think it's incredibly significant. Until this news, I was a little concerned that the $28 K spent on Epic would be impacted by the next gen sensor. This fixes that with (once again) the uniqute opportunity to upgrade hardware.

It's too bad that this thread - "Big News" was started with some negative reactions already in place. I sincerely hope the "no announcement" policy fades when all the dust settles from NAB. Jim has to be exhausted from the big push, and to have the supply chain blasted just as the new assembly line is up - what awful luck and timing. But as many have observed - much worse for millions in Japan than for us.
 
Paul J Steinberg said:
Are there links to the actual announcements?

A detailed list of what was announced?

Red dragon is a sensor upgrade but any details other than the picture of a T-shirt?

What post options?

When will this stuff be available?

I looked on Red.com but there aren't any press release updates.
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Quite..:undecided: With the greatest of respect to the RED team, a proper announcement is, well, announced publicly for all the world to see, not hidden in a post somewhere or made at a trade show, with no online follow up for those not there. I mean, you have a nice website, why not use it?:huh:
Also, Jim, really.. a sensor upgrade for a camera which hasn't been released yet and an ipad app are not quite what we all expected.. If we can't actually place an order because of supply issues from Japan (which is fair enough) why can't we know the actual full specs of, for example, the 8xScarlet model? You've had a working model for months, it's been shown countless times, and videos of it in action have been available for us to see for ages. I would like to be able to go to Red.com, click on Scarlet and see a whole bunch of information about the camera: frame rates, codecs, associated data rates, size, weight, lens specs, the make up of the "standard package". Also I would like to know the price please. These troublesome components are supposedly minor, and will surely eventually be supplied for roughly the same price by a Japanese or other manufacturer, so you must have done your sums and have a target price in mind already! I write as a frustrated customer. It's a business model that doesn't make sense to me, and your only saving grace is that so far you seem to have no competition, although to be fair the only camera you're actually making and selling at the moment costs $58000 and is only available to those whom RED has vetted and decided ought to be allowed to buy it.
:confused1:
 
As much as I'll miss Jim's announcements, in my humble opinion I think it would be a good thing to play it a little bit cooler with the hype of announcing things.

Regarding the Red forum, I am getting quite tired of extremist fan boys criticizing people who express their valid points and criticism. I am a super happy red owner for a long time. I love my Red and it has allowed me to do projects with a quality I couldn't dream 4 years ago! But I can't stand the snobby attitude against people that express criticism. It is getting to a point that don't want to read Reduser any more.

I remember long time ago how people would feel pissed when people talked down the Red against the big boys (Sony, panavision). I would get pissed as well, because it was unfair. Red was starting and they were comparing two different kind of cameras/companies as if they were the same, even though I still think Red was and is so much better than those in most of the aspects, not all.

But now many Red customers are doing the opposite arrogant attitude. I've seen people now looking down on a 7D and comparing it to an Epic. I find it in a way insulting, since a 7D is less than $2,000 that you can buy it now and for many people that camera is a great tool for art making. What's all about this cocky attitude? We all know that Epic is much better in everything, so what, it's also a much much much more expensive tool!. It is just funny to see how people criticized the 7D for being too small and now they show off how EPIC is as small as a medium format camera. Pathetic.

I can't wait to get my Epic. It is clearly the best film making camera ever made. Red has revolutionized the film industry and as Ted said, finally we are seeing the competitors taking Red really seriously, and listening. About time!

But the horrible tragedy in Japan and the understandable delay in production is not the result of people's getting angry and tired. There is nothing more important than people's lives, and we all understand a delay because of that. But Red has had consistent delays on pretty much everything, and I say this without anger, because they are creating the future, and that must be damn hard!. So I bought in the "everything changes" mantra because I love what they are making, and I am the happiest red customer. HDRx oh man, I can't wait!

But there are things that scare me and this goes further back than the Tsunami. A lot of people are still waiting on bomb EVFs, even though we saw a photograph of hundreds of Bomb EVFs in production almost ready to ship, I can see that frustrating. I applaud the resolution of Red moving into SSDs technology, but cutting off the HD supply without a plenty supply of SSDs.... scary.

The only thing I am trying to say, is that I think Red needs to get a better balance between creating hype, giving future product information (that we all love and need) and delivering products.

The clear example to me is Jims announcement before NAB. The one "Big announcement in NAB, if you are near there and don't come by, oh well..." People were going to fill the RED booth no matter what, but this announcement creates so many different espectations in so many people that are extremely anxious to get their Epic-M/X/S Scarlet. We've all been waiting for such a long time, reading the forum everyday for a bit of information or a photo. I think at this point there is no need for more hype. Epic is here. It is real, and scarlet is close behind.

Many people were even thinking they could put an order on Epic-S or scarlet at NAB!! And the news is that they are taking more EPIC-M reservations. I can understand people reaction and despair, that means that I will have to wait longer. In my case I've learnt the lesson and wait patiently. When Jim says Stage two will start shipping before NAB, I take it as it might start shipping before summer (and correct me if I am wrong but I think this announcement was done after the psunami happened), and in my case waiting for stage 3, I take it as I might get it by chritsmas. And if I don't I will keep shooting with my Red (no MX) and still be supper happy.

The latest news about Dragon upgrade for people like me buying the EPIC it is fantastic news, pretty much the best news we could get besides a real shipping date with tracking number. It makes me appreciate RED even more, because that's why I bought my One in the first place, for it's modularity. But it is just funny to get a future upgrade option of my future Red upgrade.
 
Ivan Cortazar said:
As much as I'll miss Jim's announcements, in my humble opinion I think it would be a good thing to play it a little bit cooler with the hype of announcing things.

Regarding the Red forum, I am getting quite tired of extremist fan boys criticizing people who express their valid points and criticism. I am a super happy red owner for a long time. I love my Red and it has allowed me to do projects with a quality I couldn't dream 4 years ago! But I can't stand the snobby attitude against people that express criticism. It is getting to a point that don't want to read Reduser any more.

I remember long time ago how people would feel pissed when people talked down the Red against the big boys (Sony, panavision). I would get pissed as well, because it was unfair. Red was starting and they were comparing two different kind of cameras/companies as if they were the same, even though I still think Red was and is so much better than those in most of the aspects, not all.

But now many Red customers are doing the opposite arrogant attitude. I've seen people now looking down on a 7D and comparing it to an Epic. I find it in a way insulting, since a 7D is less than $2,000 that you can buy it now and for many people that camera is a great tool for art making. What's all about this cocky attitude? We all know that Epic is much better in everything, so what, it's also a much much much more expensive tool!. It is just funny to see how people criticized the 7D for being too small and now they show off how EPIC is as small as a medium format camera. Pathetic.

I can't wait to get my Epic. It is clearly the best film making camera ever made. Red has revolutionized the film industry and as Ted said, finally we are seeing the competitors taking Red really seriously, and listening. About time!

But the horrible tragedy in Japan and the understandable delay in production is not the result of people's getting angry and tired. There is nothing more important than people's lives, and we all understand a delay because of that. But Red has had consistent delays on pretty much everything, and I say this without anger, because they are creating the future, and that must be damn hard!. So I bought in the "everything changes" mantra because I love what they are making, and I am the happiest red customer. HDRx oh man, I can't wait!

But there are things that scare me and this goes further back than the Tsunami. A lot of people are still waiting on bomb EVFs, even though we saw a photograph of hundreds of Bomb EVFs in production almost ready to ship, I can see that frustrating. I applaud the resolution of Red moving into SSDs technology, but cutting off the HD supply without a plenty supply of SSDs.... scary.

The only thing I am trying to say, is that I think Red needs to get a better balance between creating hype, giving future product information (that we all love and need) and delivering products.

The clear example to me is Jims announcement before NAB. The one "Big announcement in NAB, if you are near there and don't come by, oh well..." People were going to fill the RED booth no matter what, but this announcement creates so many different espectations in so many people that are extremely anxious to get their Epic-M/X/S Scarlet. We've all been waiting for such a long time, reading the forum everyday for a bit of information or a photo. I think at this point there is no need for more hype. Epic is here. It is real, and scarlet is close behind.

Many people were even thinking they could put an order on Epic-S or scarlet at NAB!! And the news is that they are taking more EPIC-M reservations. I can understand people reaction and despair, that means that I will have to wait longer. In my case I've learnt the lesson and wait patiently. When Jim says Stage two will start shipping before NAB, I take it as it might start shipping before summer (and correct me if I am wrong but I think this announcement was done after the psunami happened), and in my case waiting for stage 3, I take it as I might get it by chritsmas. And if I don't I will keep shooting with my Red (no MX) and still be supper happy.

The latest news about Dragon upgrade for people like me buying the EPIC it is fantastic news, pretty much the best news we could get besides a real shipping date with tracking number. It makes me appreciate RED even more, because that's why I bought my One in the first place, for it's modularity. But it is just funny to get a future upgrade option of my future Red upgrade.
Click to expand...



THOSE WHO HAVE RED CAMERA NEVER UNDERSTANDS THOSE WHO HAVEN'T!
 
Mark Pugh said:
Jim's saying it's one of the big things for Red at NAB, but there's no thread about them in Reduser... just wondering which accessories we're talking about.
Click to expand...

Just watch the recorded stream of Matt going through it all thanks to REDMODz. Its a bit dark but you can still see whats going on perfectly well.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13933547

Peace.
 
Alexey Datsenko said:
THOSE WHO HAVE RED CAMERA NEVER UNDERSTANDS THOSE WHO HAVEN'T!
Click to expand...

I dont own a red, but you're being aggressive. I've waited just as long, maybe longer than you for a scarlet. The news sucks but take it easy man. I know you want to vent... but do it else where.

Also you know he made good points and you're attacking for having a red already. He was siding with you man. Calm down.
 
"But it is just funny to get a future upgrade option of my future Red upgrade."
That's the thing isn't it? Technology gets better all the time, so of course the longer the we wait for the camera to actually be released for general sale to the general public LOL, the better it's going to get! Imagine apple had announced a brand new laptop in 2008, it was going to be a dual core processor etc etc very fast, but one thing led to another and they still haven't released it yet but at least now they are promising quad core i7 processors, and lightening graphics and a fantastic new operating system and so on.. :-)

I'll bet the BEST feature of your RED camera is that you've got it in your hands ;-)
 
OK but we know the Epic's are coming. We know that RED is all about keeping as close to making obsolescence obsolete, right? 95% of the camera companies will release a new camera with insignificant upgrades for the most part and usually the same sensor for about four generations. You have been waiting for the EPIC for a few years like everyone else but RED are planning their next sensor. Like with the M - MX conversion. How amazing is it that you can, with peace of mind, purchase a camera being relaxed in the knowledge that in a years time, you can buy a sensor upgrade for that camera - and not have to spend five times the amount (thousands) to buy a new brain. That is customer satisfaction. It is letting the customer know the company are on your side. RED constantly restores faith in me that companies can do things that are not purely for monetary gain. It humbles me. I may like to play devil's advocate sometimes for clarification. But I love and respect the company and the community.
 
Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock said:
Pity, I liked the old reduser.net very much.
Those first years. ... the daily drama...THE SCAM phase....

With the new policy, even cml will end up liking RED....

;-)

Jochen
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I liked the old Reduser too, but to be honest it's been a while since I've really liked this website, it's become very bloated. But heh ho, everything changes over time, and that's just fine. The thing is that the new announcement policy (whatever it might be) is not clearly carried through. Apple for example have a very robust and clear policy on announcements: they say nothing, they leak nothing, we are not even aware of what kind of product may be announced, then Steve Jobs does his big speech, the apple fanboys go wild and the product is immediately placed on their website with clear specs and prices. RED seem to have a policy of half announcing things, promising that answers will be given at a certain date then failing to deliver, instead giving us tantalising glimpses of the product in action either operated by RED employees, or by special friends, but with no details given. And the most frustrating thing is that it is quite clear that if we don't keep coming back to this website occasionally to check what snippets of information may have been randomly released we'll likely miss any real announcement entirely. I mean, they have my email address, why don't they just email me when they have a product to sell? That's what other companies do..
:banghead:
 
Tim and Ivan, it's like I said in an earlier post, people are now driven by pure RED passion, a lot of insanity, and desperation to get one of the new cameras. We are no different then Jim himself, he was so desperate to get one of these bad boys he invested million of dollars, and according to his doctor a great deal of his health to make them. I'm sure a shrink would say any criticism here is positive for red, it shows how desperate we have become, and JIM is to blame and congratulate at the same time. It's a wild ride. We've been seduced by RED porn, of incredible 5k images, and teased by some saying scarlet is better then you can dream of. We are all envious those who have Epics, and Joseph (I can't say anything bad about him, because he has too much enthusiasm). However I hear somewhat what some of the things) Alexey is saying, you can't understand what it is like to shot a project knowing how great it could have been on RED. In the past 12 months I have filmed some incredible once in lifetime events, and each time I thought, god I wish it was on red . It's to no fault of Jim or Reds, or info that has or has not been released. We understand Japan etc...

People are excited! it's bound to lead to highs and lows. Lets hope Jim does not close the doors for good.
 
Curran Giddens said:
How would acting more like Apple help anyone with planning anything? I don't get it.

I guess I don't get why people complain on here either when they know it pisses Jim off. Maybe expectations have weight like if Red was publicly traded. For example, Apple can do really great as a company for a certain period, but if they don't meet the analyst's exact expectations, the stock goes down.
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Depends on the way you look. If we did not know anything about Epic and Scarlet you would bought some existing cameras instead of hold out money for the coming soon to switch to now available. But now that we do know about them I think
its to late going into "radio-silence". Now we have waited for years given feed back and saved a budget. So Im with you on this one. Cause we now it would be good to know when Epic or Scarlet were expected to hit the market. As long you have an estimate you could choose to invest now or 3 month later or whatever.

Maby we should do a poll on how many that prefer the old RED style or the Apple way?
 
Not a bad idea Jim, I love the announcements but in reality so little of anything that is announced is actually shipping or in any quantity that it's giving plenty of time for your competitors with big pockets and big expertise to step up and while your still killing it with what you are doing compared to them the gap is shrinking, and as before, everything changed because of what was being released by other companies while you developed.
Dragon=just another unbelievable thing your offering not even closely mirrored by anyone. Thank you! But in all honesty you would have to have seen the reactions by some of an upgrade for my upgrade I havnt yet got.
 
Jannard said:
I will say that we held back one big announcement due to circumstances beyond our control. The situation in Japan has caused problems for us, current and future, even though the part count is very low for any one of them.
Jim
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Jim you know that despite the fact some of us may act like children we understand the problems you now face as of the result of Japan. However your post here suggest there was reason for people to wonder what that other big news was, and I'm 90% sure if it was about deliveries of any stage or any camera people would have been 100% satisfied, and have taken news about R Dragon differently . We are also grown-ups, you could have said last week, hey guys, I had planned to tell you... but for these reasons... It's not possible. We understand how hard what you are trying to do really is.
 
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