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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Big NAB rumor "Scratch coming to MAC"

Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
An ability to add a graphic doesn't make a finishing system. Smoke is a finishing system and so is Avid DS. Scratch is not by any stretch of imagination and so is Resolve. By that token not even cream of the crop of grading systems, like Baselight, Lustre or FilmMaster are not finishing systems. That is not what they designed for. There are appropriate finishing tools and Scratch is not one of them.

Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Wilson View Post
Ok... I'll bite. I (obviously) don't work for ASSIMILATE any more, but I gotta ask...

In your opinion, what defines a "finishing system?"

Lucas

- look before it would be gettin' WW3 LOL.... i will try define "my finishing system" here. our workspace here always using RED, so we installed 3 facility here, we have Smac(aka smoke on mac 2011SP4), Scratch5.1 and Nuke...and 4 FCPs, for me it's all about the workflow, because we do much with red, so when we here try to conformed the EDL, Scratch much much better than smac, here i dont say that smac is bad,..but i wont agree if they-ADSK called the smac is finishing system, ofc i like the interface, i am speechless bout the UI and bla bla bla. but still if there are some special "cases", 3D compositing, reprojection etc, so we move and export and let the Nuke finish it. here , our smoke just do not do so so compicated job. let say, today, we have "special" client need rush finishing the job, there are 12 vfx shots that have to be need sky replacement, some of 'em need to be 3d trx camera, and again everything shotted by red. we starting morning do conform in scratch, all RAWs materials, 1minute commercial, 33 shots and special grading, add scafolds here , there, some selected color adjustment, hilite , sdow adjustment, and we finished 2 hrs for grading session include export some vfx shots, then confomed back in FCP as HD output. then we finished all of 'em at 8.PM , i still can get my lunch..and a great dinner. then client happy. and i do it alone, all by myself. integrating in scratch and nuke. so again, here whut we talked just about the workflow management, and how we pre-built our facility and our goal. so for our smac, still can be maximize it for simple project. so i hope there is nobody here get hurt LOL...ok guys that is my opinion. i dunno from the others. Peace--- hv a nice day
 
kito said:
Quote Originally Posted by jake blackstone View Post
An ability to add a graphic doesn't make a finishing system. Smoke is a finishing system and so is Avid DS. Scratch is not by any stretch of imagination and so is Resolve. By that token not even cream of the crop of grading systems, like Baselight, Lustre or FilmMaster are not finishing systems. That is not what they designed for. There are appropriate finishing tools and Scratch is not one of them.

Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Wilson View Post
Ok... I'll bite. I (obviously) don't work for ASSIMILATE any more, but I gotta ask...

In your opinion, what defines a "finishing system?"

Lucas

- look before it would be gettin' WW3 LOL.... i will try define "my finishing system" here. our workspace here always using RED, so we installed 3 facility here, we have Smac(aka smoke on mac 2011SP4), Scratch5.1 and Nuke...and 4 FCPs, for me it's all about the workflow, because we do much with red, so when we here try to conformed the EDL, Scratch much much better than smac, here i dont say that smac is bad,..but i wont agree if they-ADSK called the smac is finishing system, ofc i like the interface, i am speechless bout the UI and bla bla bla. but still if there are some special "cases", 3D compositing, reprojection etc, so we move and export and let the Nuke finish it. here , our smoke just do not do so so compicated job. let say, today, we have "special" client need rush finishing the job, there are 12 vfx shots that have to be need sky replacement, some of 'em need to be 3d trx camera, and again everything shotted by red. we starting morning do conform in scratch, all RAWs materials, 1minute commercial, 33 shots and special grading, add scafolds here , there, some selected color adjustment, hilite , sdow adjustment, and we finished 2 hrs for grading session include export some vfx shots, then confomed back in FCP as HD output. then we finished all of 'em at 8.PM , i still can get my lunch..and a great dinner. then client happy. and i do it alone, all by myself. integrating in scratch and nuke. so again, here whut we talked just about the workflow management, and how we pre-built our facility and our goal. so for our smac, still can be maximize it for simple project. so i hope there is nobody here get hurt LOL...ok guys that is my opinion. i dunno from the others. Peace--- hv a nice day
Click to expand...

No WW3 kito, LOL! But Kito everything you just explained by your definition of a finishing system for a TVC can be accomplished fully in either FCP Studio, or CS5 studio (a matter of know how). Does that make them finishing Systems?
 
Lucas Wilson said:
Ok... I'll bite. I (obviously) don't work for ASSIMILATE any more, but I gotta ask...

In your opinion, what defines a "finishing system?"

Lucas
Click to expand...
An ability to work with multilayered projects and timelines, true 3d compositing environment, proper titles support, sophisticated keyer or keyers, sound editing capabilities... So, in so many words, yes, Smoke:-)
 
jake blackstone said:
An ability to work with multilayered projects and timelines, true 3d compositing environment, proper titles support, sophisticated keyer or keyers, sound editing capabilities... So, in so many words, yes, Smoke:-)
Click to expand...

So you are saying only Smoke is a real Finishing system, because no other system has these capabilities. Avid DS has only a few of these capabilities.
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
Now I use my grading system as a digital telecine for rushes because it's particular good at colours, not so much at editorial changes AFTER approval by the clients.
Click to expand...

To me, that's what I've taken away from seeing Scratch in use as its biggest advantage over Resolve or Color, being able to handle editorial changes and versioning. It's great when you have an FX pipeline running alongside your colour correction work, as starting with roughs and switching to more and more refined FX shots along the way is extremely useful.

So in my opinion is Scratch a finishing system? Well, it depends on what your needs are. It's a more complete finishing solution for complex projects that Resolve or Color and maybe several other colour grading apps I'm not familiar with. It's maybe less of a complete finishing system than Smoke or DS, if your project is in need of the kind of work only they can deliver.



To go back to the pricing situation, I've seen the developments of this years NAB to be quite interesting. Look at it this way:
Simplified grading (primary only, or just a single secondary):
Resolve Lite - Free
SCRATCH Lab - $5K

Full-featured grading:
Resolve - $1K
SCRATCH - $18K

While Assimilate's products are definitely in a higher price bracket, the strategy seems to be the same - offer a simpler product at a lower price point to suit productions with more basic needs, or get them hooked when they have lower budgets and hope they upgrade when they have bigger budgets and need more capabilities. I think it's a strategy that will pay great dividends for both companies.
I think any post house working with either Resolve or SCRATCH will be very enthusiastically recommending Resolve Lite or SCRATCH Lab to any production that wants to do their own dailies and editorial, so they can easily hand that work over to the post house.
Oh, and doesn't that seem to be the key idea behind the Baselight Plugin?
 
Stephen Strangways said:
To me, that's what I've taken away from seeing Scratch in use as its biggest advantage over Resolve or Color, being able to handle editorial changes and versioning. It's great when you have an FX pipeline running alongside your colour correction work, as starting with roughs and switching to more and more refined FX shots along the way is extremely useful.

So in my opinion is Scratch a finishing system? Well, it depends on what your needs are. It's a more complete finishing solution for complex projects that Resolve or Color and maybe several other colour grading apps I'm not familiar with. It's maybe less of a complete finishing system than Smoke or DS, if your project is in need of the kind of work only they can deliver.



To go back to the pricing situation, I've seen the developments of this years NAB to be quite interesting. Look at it this way:
Simplified grading (primary only, or just a single secondary):
Resolve Lite - Free
SCRATCH Lab - $5K

Full-featured grading:
Resolve - $1K
SCRATCH - $18K

While Assimilate's products are definitely in a higher price bracket, the strategy seems to be the same - offer a simpler product at a lower price point to suit productions with more basic needs, or get them hooked when they have lower budgets and hope they upgrade when they have bigger budgets and need more capabilities. I think it's a strategy that will pay great dividends for both companies.
I think any post house working with either Resolve or SCRATCH will be very enthusiastically recommending Resolve Lite or SCRATCH Lab to any production that wants to do their own dailies and editorial, so they can easily hand that work over to the post house.
Oh, and doesn't that seem to be the key idea behind the Baselight Plugin?
Click to expand...

Well from that pint of view Resolve 8 1k is an overall better product than scratch 18K. Just from its multilayered time and interoperable features between FCP puts way ahead of scratch. I mean Scratch mac basically has a new one track XML timeline.
 
shashbugu said:
Well from that pint of view Resolve 8 1k is an overall better product than scratch 18K. Just from its multilayered time and interoperable features between FCP puts way ahead of scratch. I mean Scratch mac basically has a new one track XML timeline.
Click to expand...

Really? Where did you get that information? The press release/web site says "multilayered timeline". How can you state that one product is way ahead another because of a feature you don´t know how works, and when you obviously have never used any of them? Boring...
 
Fredrik Harreschou said:
Really? Where did you get that information? The press release/web site says "multilayered timeline". How can you state that one product is way ahead another because of a feature you don´t know how works, and when you obviously have never used any of them? Boring...
Click to expand...

Actually Resolve Version 8 is demoed at NAB and does exactly what it promises.
"complex sequences from Final Cut Pro to be imported, color graded and then exported directly back into Final Cut Pro, with all the new graded shots, and the layer structure, intact. If the Final Cut Pro edit is changed, DaVinci Resolve 8 will automatically relink all the clips so the grades are preserved. Editing can also be performed inside DaVinci Resolve 8, and clips adjusted and relocated."
 
Fredrik Harreschou said:
Really? Where did you get that information? The press release/web site says "multilayered timeline". How can you state that one product is way ahead another because of a feature you don´t know how works, and when you obviously have never used any of them? Boring...
Click to expand...

Thankfully I can read have better Google skills than you do. And Yes I have had a project wrangled/ graded in Scratch way back when they were the only ones doing it. the new offering does have Xml like I said but its not as intricately implemented as what was demoed by BMD. Assimilate and BMD demos and write ups from NAB are all over the web, and all information they have refers to new scaffolds, effects/ keyers and mac presence there are no multi track conform features announced. Adn no I'm not in any way shape or manner comparing Scratch to Resolve. An earlier comparison was made btwn 18k Scratch vs 1k Resolve based on a few factors. All I said if only those factors are to be compared for the value then resolve beats Scratch. Scratch does way more than a grading conform tool Resolve.
 
jake blackstone said:
Actually Resolve Version 8 is demoed at NAB and does exactly what it promises.
"complex sequences from Final Cut Pro to be imported, color graded and then exported directly back into Final Cut Pro, with all the new graded shots, and the layer structure, intact. If the Final Cut Pro edit is changed, DaVinci Resolve 8 will automatically relink all the clips so the grades are preserved. Editing can also be performed inside DaVinci Resolve 8, and clips adjusted and relocated."
Click to expand...

Hi Jake,

I don´t doubt that it does what it promises. My reaction was to this statement: "I mean Scratch mac basically has a new one track XML timeline."
Assimilate´s press release and web site clearly says multilayer timeline and the screen shots I have seen confirms that.
 
Fredrik Harreschou said:
Hi Jake,

I don´t doubt that it does what it promises. My reaction was to this statement: "I mean Scratch mac basically has a new one track XML timeline."
Assimilate´s press release and web site clearly says multilayer timeline and the screen shots I have seen confirms that.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I missed this. Thanks for pointing this out. I'll be tomorrow at Renaissance for another demo and I hope I can stop by Assimilate's suite for closer look.
 
Fredrik Harreschou said:
Hi Jake,

I don´t doubt that it does what it promises. My reaction was to this statement: "I mean Scratch mac basically has a new one track XML timeline."
Assimilate´s press release and web site clearly says multilayer timeline and the screen shots I have seen confirms that.
Click to expand...

its the same versioning timeline with multiple layers not multiple tracks. Its been the same ever since Scratch was made, sort of the same you saw in the original redcine or apple color, but unlike redcine or color you can composite using those layers, transforms etc . Smoke has multiple tracks and multiple layers per track. If they do have multiple tracks now, I humbly apologize and stand corrected. Please check Jake
 
I stand corrected I was just told the new versions Multi-layers are substantially different and do in fact import fx layers from editorial products. OOOPs. Apparently my reading skills ........
 
shashbugu said:
its the same versioning timeline with multiple layers not multiple tracks. Its been the same ever since Scratch was made, sort of the same you saw in the original redcine or apple color, but unlike redcine or color you can composite using those layers, transforms etc . Smoke has multiple tracks and multiple layers per track. If they do have multiple tracks now, I humbly apologize and stand corrected. Please check Jake
Click to expand...

Humbly stand corrected, then! :)
 
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