Best Way to Sync Sound for RED Project

[Art_Jaguar]

Hello Gents,

Quick question. The way I was showed to sync sound, was to add my clip to a new sequence, bring in the WAV file, match my In point from the timeline where i can see the slate numbers to the WAV file timecode. Thus creating a sequence where which has my WAV files and my Transcoded RED clips. So when ever i edited the project, i had a bunch of Nesting because each one of my clips was actually a sequence because i had sync'd it up that way.
Was I taught an inferior way? To top it off, i was showed to do this with the Proxy Files.

I just read that I can sync clips together into a single clip without having to make a sequence, and therefore having to Nest. It seems to me that making Merged clips is a better idea then making new sequences in order to Sync.

Are Merged Clips the better way to go? Pro and Cons of each method? Or goes it not really matter?

I am about to start a new RED project in a few days, and I want to do it the most legitimate way that I can ; Transcode to ProRes, do an offline edit, conform to Native RED, Send to Color etc.

I know it sounds stupid, but since i never had to work with syncing sound files until my first RED project, I thought the making of new sequences was THE way to Sync sound files to my media. It was the way i was shown.

Now that Ive JUST read that Merging clips adds my WAV files to my ProRes Clips and makes a new master clip , NO NEW SEQUENCE created so i dont have to edit sequences into sequences, I have a hunch that this is the preferred method.

Conforming of Merged clips will keep the sound files Synced right? They wont desync when going from ProResLT to say, ProsRes4444?

Any input will be greatly appreciated as I am eager to learn the more 'legit' way of doing things. This forum has been a great help.

Thanks,

Art

 

[Ben Brainerd]

Merged clips are generally the better way to go. They'll stay synced when you do a conform, no worries.

If nothing else, you can double-click them and they'll open in the viewer rather than a new timeline.

 

[Art_Jaguar]

Thank you for the answer Ben. I thought it was weird that syncing sound always made new sequences, glad I decided to look into it myself before started a new project.

I do have an older project that I used the New Sequence Syncing method on, when conforming my sequences within sequences, that sound should stay Sync'ed once i conform right? They are Proxy M files.


Ill be transcoding to ProRes merging clips from now on.

Another question, is it better to name the Clips in the Log and Transfer Window before they get transcoded? As opposed to setting a batch to transcode, and then renaming the clips in the BIN once they are all done. Or does it now matter?

 

[joe hedge]

Another question, is it better to name the Clips in the Log and Transfer Window before they get transcoded? As opposed to setting a batch to transcode, and then renaming the clips in the BIN once they are all done. Or does it now matter?

Actually it's better not to use FCP Log & Transfer at all, use Red-Cine-X instead. Maybe FCP 8 will be multi-processor aware, but FCP 7 only uses 2 of your processor cores. Also Red-Cine-X 356 and up runs 64 bit, provided you either have a Westmere Mac or start your Nehalem Mac in 64 bit.

Once you have transcodes, sync sound to them in individual sequences, select all and command-L to link audio tracks to video tracks, and mouse-drag the contents of the timeline back to the bin that you named by scene and take. I color-code the resulting merged clip to distinguish them from master clips, then option-drag them to a "merged clip" bin that the editor uses to cut with. And no, don't rename any master or merged clips, just name the bins by scene and take, you can always use shift-F (reveal in browser) if you need locate where a clip in your sequence is in your browser.

 

[Ben Brainerd]

Actually it's better not to use FCP Log & Transfer at all, use Red-Cine-X instead. Maybe FCP 8 will be multi-processor aware, but FCP 7 only uses 2 of your processor cores. Also Red-Cine-X 356 and up runs 64 bit, provided you either have a Westmere Mac or start your Nehalem Mac in 64 bit.

Once you have transcodes, sync sound to them in individual sequences, select all and command-L to link audio tracks to video tracks, and mouse-drag the contents of the timeline back to the bin that you named by scene and take. I color-code the resulting merged clip to distinguish them from master clips, then option-drag them to a "merged clip" bin that the editor uses to cut with. And no, don't rename any master or merged clips, just name the bins by scene and take, you can always use shift-F (reveal in browser) if you need locate where a clip in your sequence is in your browser.

Joe's on the ball with his transcoding suggestion.

Renaming in L&T is a *BAD* idea, since it affects the names of the transcoded clips and thus your ability to reconform with Clipfinder. Just say no. Transcode with original file names, once the files are imported into FCP you can rename them *in the bin* to your heart's content without affecting anything.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with Joe's syncing workflow, though. It's not wrong, by any stretch, just different than I was taught. The method I use is setting In Points at the clapper and using the merge clips command. The end results are the same, so feel free to experiment and figure out what works for you.

Your older project (Audio synced to _M Proxies) should stay synced just fine when you reconform.

Generally speaking, whether you're linking, merging, or however you do it, you'll get better results than with your nested-sequences method. Like I said before, if nothing else you won't have to deal with double-clicking opening up a new sequence in the timeline. Plus if your workflow involves Color nested sequences are a *BIG* no-no.

 

[Art_Jaguar]

Thanks for the responses guys. Ill avoid syncing with new sequences from now on.

Im JUST starting the PDF that came with RED Cine as i have not used it before. Ill make sure i get through it.

So use REDCINE to Transcode to a ProRes LT, Sync, Edit, and Do I then use L&T to conform back to ProRes4444/Native ?

Or is REDCINE used to Conform as well?

Why is RED CINE X preferred over L&T ? The White Paper from RED didnt include a REDCINE workflow :/


Thanks for the help, I want to do things right this time.

 

[Ben Brainerd]

Honestly, the white paper is junk. Read it, but consider it a loose guide rather than hard rules.

If you transcode your files using RC-X you don't need to use L&T at all. Just import the files like any other videos, straight into the bin. You'd then use clipfinder later on to reconform to the camera proxies for sending to Color or whatever your final destination is.

RC-X is the preferred method because it's 64-bit and multi-core aware, so if you've got the horsepower available it will use it, rather than L&T which will only do 2 cores max.

Basically, your workflow could look vaguely like this:

1. Transcode with RC-X (Or Clipfinder) to whichever one of the ProRes flavors floats your proverbial boat.
2. Import transcoded files into FCP. Just dump 'em in the bin.
3. Edit
4. Reconform. Send an XML to clipfinder, reconnect to the camera proxies.
5. Grade. Send the new, conformed sequence to Color, assuming that's your grading destination.

Steps 4 & 5 may vary depending on your grading/finishing pipeline.

 

[Art_Jaguar]

I do have Clip Finder 2.5 , should i use that instead of RED Cine X? Or Does it not matter much?

Sorry, im a bit confused as the WHITE PAPER gave me a way to do it using the L&T, then people say to use RCX and now im reading that CLIP-Finder should be used :/

 

[Ben Brainerd]

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you. Not saying Clipfinder *should* be used, just that it *could*. Although I don't know the state of Clipfinder's render engine, so whether that'd be a good idea...

Best/simplest bet: batch render using RC-X. You can't go wrong there.

 

[Art_Jaguar]

Thanks, ill use RCX for now since it gives more options in Debayering and choosing a low res like 720p for my offline Edit.

And then conform using RCX? I havent gotten that far on the PDF for the RCX but im sure it can be used to conform just like the L&T in FCP.

 

[Art_Jaguar]

One more thing, i was also taught to Sync ALL Media to the WAV files, is this bad practice since we wont be using all clips?

Is there a smarter way to do it?

 

[Ben Brainerd]

Assuming you're conforming to Proxies for a grade in Color, you can conform using Clipfinder. If you're rendering out high-res ProRes, your best bet is Clipfinder + RC-X, since as of my last experience (Admittedly several versions ago) RC-X's XML import is kinda broken.

Couldn't tell you about which clips to sync, as I subscribe to the "sync everything" school as well. Syncing after the fact is hard, so it's tough to say "edit first then sync"

 

[Art_Jaguar]

Ill be making Proxy files (not the camera proxy'sF,H,M,P) Syncing sound to those clips, editing, and then conforming to ProRes4444 or Native RED before I send to Color.