Best TV Commercial frame rates

[jimcoulter]

I'll be shooting a TV commercial that will air in several states. I'm shooting on Red Scarlet. I would like to know what the best frame rate would be for television delivery.

I typically shoot corporate work, music videos etc at 23.98 project base and 23.98 fps (1/48 shutter). Should I do the same with the TV commercials and just convert the frame rate to the TV stations specs? (Typically 59.94 for 720P resolution and 29.97 for 1080i resolution) Is there a benefit? A non-benefit?

Or should I shoot at 29.97 project base and fps (1/59.94 shutter) OR at 59.94 project base and 29.97 fps (1/59.94 shutter)? Again is there a benefit to shooting in the TV stations desired frame rate?

Anyone with experience shooting national TV commercials- Please let me know your workflow with Red camera and post. Need information as soon as possible.

Thank you!

 

[Nick Morrison]

Shoot 23.98. Deliver 23.98. Your clients can easily edit them in a 29.97 project (the NLE does the pulldown).

All my clients are broadcast, and this workflow is pretty standard for them (for narrative and anything meant to have a traditional, filmic motion blur). The majority of commercials, network and cable dramas appear to shoot/deliver this way. Even a number of reality shows Ive promoted shot 23.98, so its clearly becoming more mainstream, even for non-scripted.

Good luck!

 

[jimcoulter]

Hey Nick, Thanks for the information. I will be doing the post as well. Should I edit in a native 23.98 sequence and then export the final deliverable at the 29.97 or 59.94 setting?
Or is it better to conform my sequence in Premiere to 29.97?
I'm curious- does the NLE add the extra frames by cloning frames to get 29.97 out of 23.98?
I'm looking for the best post production workflow.

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

Edit 23.98, make a master at 23.98. Even if it's only airing in SD now, well, that's silly even for local stuff; HD is past here, and within a few years UHD will be the norm. If you have a master 23.98 1080p version, and your client comes back and says "Can we make that thing you did HD?" You can go "Here (for $$$)". That's a good conversation. You're a hero, and you get money for something you already have on hand.

Plus, look at it this way: SD stuff looks bad anyway, because it's low resolution. If you get a little wonkiness from the 23.98 --> 29.97 conversion (not that there should be that much; the main edit programs have been doing this for years), you won't really be able to tell.

There are a few ways to make 23.98 into 29.97, technically speaking. Cloning frames is one way. Typically, though, the program uses a pulldown method. This is a good way to start wrapping your head around it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

 

[Jim Coulter]

Hi Nick, Thanks for the information. I do like to shoot at 23.98 for most work as I like the 'film' look. However what benefit is it to shoot at 23.98 if I will have to add the additional frames back when I deliver to the TV Stations? They are very specific about their requirements and no station accepts 23.98. Wouldn't it be best to shoot at 30 fps or even 60 fps on the Red Scarlet?
I'd really love to hear from a camera operator who shoots major national TV commercials. What do you guys shoot at?

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

Like Nick said shoot at 23.98 1/48...then let your NLE do the conversion to 29.97 for broadcast. This still has a way different look than shooting natively at 29.97.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Like Nick said shoot at 23.98 1/48...then let your NLE do the conversion to 29.97 for broadcast. This still has a way different look than shooting natively at 29.97.

This is right.

stay in 23.98 as far as possible, most stations even broadcast that now or at least take delver of such files.... if not then you do a 3:2 pulldown when the film is finnished. Dont shoot or edit in 30p... and 60p is not a used format so do not go there... All commercials you see that are done at a decent level is shot and edited and finalized in 23.98 and then possibly converted.

 

[George Butterfield]

shoot and edit at 29.97 ... freak them out ... let 'em know you're the man with the vision! And the sweet looking shots!

 

[Maik Müller]

shoot and edit at 29.97 ... freak them out ... let 'em know you're the man with the vision! And the sweet looking shots!

Then better shoot HFR.

As others said, just shoot 23.98/24. It's the common base, can be used everywhere and easily converted.

 

[jake southard]

Good ol Kansas City news atation still broadcasting in SD.. making my stuff look like garbage

 

[stu aull]

Agreed with above:
You can Shoot/Post in native Frame-rate 23.98 then-
-if you are on a Mac at least -
I use QuicktimePro (best $30 I have spent on software!) to re-set the frame/rate, interlace/progressive spec to each client/stations requirement on _their_ copy of the Dub. Conversion results are seamless, both audio and video.
FWIW, any national spots we have sent to a single distribution point/service have always had the requirement of 29.97i, but, again, we shoot/master at 23.98p

Stu Aull
SX199
Alaska