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Best On-Camera Mic for Scarlet / Epic

Jordan Livingston

Jordan Livingston

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Dear REDUsers,

I have a small personal project coming up and I have no choice but to record audio directly into my Scarlet via some sort of on-board mic. I'm well aware of all the reasons why I should NOT do this. However, putting experience and wisdom aside, I'm looking for recommendations for the best-case scenario here. In other words, what's the very best on-board mic for use with a Scarlet?

I was hoping that this was Rode product would be available by now, but alas, it's still in limbo: http://www.rodemic.com/vmhd

Anything else similar on the market?

Thanks in advance,

- Jordan
 
You might be surprised at the quality of audio you can capture in-camera...
I personally use the Rode Video Mic Pro that needs a tiny modification to make it work with DSMC brains (as do most of the mics, or you need to use stereo to mono adapters). There are several threads about this - just search the forum...

:sifone: Peter

Have a look here:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-MIC-PRO-working-with-Scarlet-Epic&highlight=
 
The trick is to keep the fan speed under (manual) control and attach the mic as far from the fan as your arm (or what ever you are using) allows. The internal audio HW in the brain is state-of-the-art, even according to SoundDevice's folks...

Sure that most pro (properly budgeted) projects require dedicated audio guy, but for personal project and the no-budgets where audio doesn't have to be 100% perfect - don't let anyone tell you off...

:sifone: Peter
 
Jordan Livingston said:
Considering possibly springing for the x A-Box (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...Camera_wc_144000_Wooden_Camera_A_Box_for.html).
Click to expand...
This was the way to go for a long time - since phantom power was introduced very late by firmware-update and since "proper" XLR cables were only available as 3rd party option for quite some time...

but if you ask me now (and thats just a personal opinion); since RED introduced both the phantom-power enabling firmware and the original RED XLR-cables there's no real need or benefit in spending 200$ (with additional mounting options even more) for something that you can basically have for 90$ by just buying 2 of these; http://www.red.com/store/products/xlr-microphone-cable-20 Ok, sure - with the A-Box you get proper full-size XLR connectors in a metal housing, but mounting can still be a bit awkward and I can archieve literally the same if I "tape" the RED cables into a good positon where they are not in the way.

it remains a personal opinion I guess - and we used the A-Box for quite some time ourselves (since the RED cables were not around long enoug), but a few weeks ago I just sold our A-Box and I totally don't miss it... We use the 2x RED cables instead - and I personally totally don't miss the A-Box. Unplugging cables in tough run & gun action can be just a little bit more awkward with this solution - but well, nothing that can't be handled... we "gained" less weight and bulkiness also by stripping down the A-Box...

as for the topic; we're doing just fine with a Sennheiser K6/ME66 combo (running on camera-phantom power) - for "clean" interview-sound I still highly recommend a 2nd mic on a boom-pole (to get a closer pick-up and to avoid the fan-noise)...
 
Definately agree with Peter. The lead into the camera is a better solution than another box hanging off the camera.

I have a top rail system. Run a 12inch rail off one of these and mount a mic grip off that rail with an adaptor. I use a Sony short shotgun from my Z5 camera - 48v phantom power works a treat. Really sweet sound from a cheap mic..
 
Peter or Simon do you use a Y cable with that? or is that a no no?
 
Jamie_Guy: no need for a Y cable on my side...
and I don't know what I'd need that for - so I'd say it#s a no no?

what would you like to archive with a Y cable? Sorry, I can't really follow your goal here...

edit: another benefit going the cable route vs. the A-Box route -> if I only need 1 Mic I unplug 1 cable, if I don't need any Mic (slomo/varispeed) I unplug both cables -> with the A-Box I'm "stuck" with 2 full-fledged ports (or none), both cables are installed/fixed to the metal housing so if I unplug one from the camera it's still there which sucks. Ok - I know dependeing on the use-scenario one could still find arguments pro-A-Box but for the work we do (a mix of run & gun and light Interview-sceanarios -> mostly on-location and exterior stuff, literally no studio-setup use) I feel like I'm better off after dropping the A-Box...
 
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both mini jacks on front of the camera are full stereo jacks if I'm not mistaken (to be honest I'm not 100% sure - I'm not an audio-guy but that's how I see it) - anyways; in most of the cases you'll only feed the camera with mono audio when using shotgun mics since those only do mono - good mono tho... by using 2 mono mics you'll have 2 mono tracks in a stereo-channel - that's how we run over here (2x shotgun mic -> 1x "ambient", 1x interview mic [either 2nd shotgun or clip-on as needed]), I'm pretty sure you can also use 2 stereo mics to get "full use" of the 4 mono tracks in the 2 stereo channels you'll theoretically have in-camera (that's 4 mono tracks in total - if you want more you'll need either Pro I/O, Meitzler or an external solution). With the 4.x firmware RED introduced a pretty powerful in-camera (software?) mixer GUI but I didn't play around with that - a quick look tells me that it should be no problem to split the mono-signal to stereo with this (won't be "real" stereo but maybe saves some work in post)...

back to the Y-cable; we don't use one... maybe you could if you see any benefits...

edit: ok, I'm wrong it seems - just look at Peter Majtans answer, he's better with audio then me :)
 
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Nope - they are not stereo. They use the stereo-type jack to carry a balanced XLR signal (+, - and ground). So if you send it stereo signal it will deduct the right signal from the left and record a lot of mush. If you use a mic like the RODE VMP - which is actually a dual mono mic (sending the same signal through both the left and right channels) you will end up with silence (or an electronic noise / hum)...

RTFM

:sifone: Peter
 
ok, know I understand what this fuss some time ago was all about... thanks for clearing that up to me :D
I only used mono-shotgun mics until now so I never ran into this situation gladly :)

about the RTFM - oh, I think did so...
But it seems like I should have gone more into detail with the Audio-part I guess (I'm not a audio-guy after all).
and I also blame RED a little bit for this whole fuss - these mini-jacks are "everything" but NOT pro-video standard (DSLR at max.)... :p
 
Peter Stelzhammer said:
I also blame RED a little bit for this whole fuss - these mini-jacks are "everything" but NOT pro-video standard (DSLR at max.)... :p
Click to expand...

Agreed 100% - but I also understand they were restricted by the size of the brain. Including two full-size XLR's would enlarge the brain quite dramatically - I for one am glad thy went the max-mini route. Would have been less confusing thou if the used some non-common plug to prevent the confusion caused by the familiarity of the 3.5 jack...

Perhaps they could have used the mini-XLR from RED ONE (and they already had the right cables to upsize to full-size XLR...

:sifone: Peter
 
IMHO the very best inexpensive option is the following:


RODE NTG2
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=367747&is=REG&Q=&A=details

Audio Cable that works perfectly
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=orderHistory&A=details&Q=&sku=133646&is=REG

Shock Mount
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=orderHistory&A=details&Q=&sku=86370&is=REG

You will have one channel with noise to delete. Careful looking at xlr to stereo input cables, they arent all wired the same, but the above one works and is built well. Monitor your audio, and in my experience the audio on beta builds is a nightmare (clips, drops, etc) but on the regular builds it's what I use 90% of the time.
 
It sure does depend on WHAT you're doing

It sure does depend on WHAT you're doing

It sure would help us if we knew what you're doing. Are you playing 'strolling camera'?
Is the event you're covering indoor or outdoor?
If you're doing it outdoor, you have less concern about wall reverb. Indoor, you'd want the mic on camera closer to the person/thing (making sound) than the nearest wall. You want the subject's original sound to hit the mic first and as strongly (within limits) as possible.

Otherwise, I'd have you tie into the house audio system, or go with wireless lapel mics.
 
Jeffrey T. Morgan said:
IMHO the very best inexpensive option is the following:


RODE NTG2
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=367747&is=REG&Q=&A=details

Audio Cable that works perfectly
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=orderHistory&A=details&Q=&sku=133646&is=REG

Shock Mount
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=orderHistory&A=details&Q=&sku=86370&is=REG

You will have one channel with noise to delete. Careful looking at xlr to stereo input cables, they arent all wired the same, but the above one works and is built well. Monitor your audio, and in my experience the audio on beta builds is a nightmare (clips, drops, etc) but on the regular builds it's what I use 90% of the time.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jeffrey. This is very helpful!

Best,

- Jordan
 
Daniel C. Lewis said:
It sure would help us if we knew what you're doing. Are you playing 'strolling camera'?
Is the event you're covering indoor or outdoor?
If you're doing it outdoor, you have less concern about wall reverb. Indoor, you'd want the mic on camera closer to the person/thing (making sound) than the nearest wall. You want the subject's original sound to hit the mic first and as strongly (within limits) as possible.

Otherwise, I'd have you tie into the house audio system, or go with wireless lapel mics.
Click to expand...

Daniel, I will be a roving camera, moving frequently between indoors and outdoors. There is no single "house," no house audio mixer, etc. I'll be doing a few sit-down interviews in real-life locations, and lots of running-around capturing b-roll both indoors and out. In addition to the camera-mounted shotgun I'm in the market for, I also currently have a decent wireless LAV system which will be used with the interview subjects and whenever else possible.

Thanks,

- Jordan
 
if you stick to the lavalier solution for the interviews and use the "mounted" solution for the rest and just for backup/sync sound with the interviews you'll do just fine in my opinion... but "only" the on-camera mounted option would not be good enough for clean interview audio (maybe with the updated/silenter fans it will get a little better).

side-question; how often do you record varispeed/slomo-shots?
for that part it's not a bad idea to carry at least a small flash-recorder (SD-card or such) to get some basic ambient sound even when recording without internal camera-sound...
 
2nd Jeffrey's comments about "beta builds" with audio.

Had a job which turned into a real problem because I didn't realise I had beta loaded....now I only ever use "approved builds". Audio & beta just don't mix.

This was on top of a green colour cast in some shots & we where lighting with HMI's ! Turned out to be "chinese bulb" . So a great day had by all.
 
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