Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Best Microbudget Film Setup

P

pat@hpnc.com

Banned
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
105
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Hi guys/gals I know a lot of you have done a lot of research on this subject so would like to get some feedback. The plan is to do a microbudget short feature (40 minutes) without going in debt. Or to be more exact staying in responsible debt. So if something goes on the credit card I have to be able to pay it of in two or three months. Basicly do not destroy my credit or life on gamble of making money on a film when the odds are stacked agaist me. Also I have a very up and down income as an illustrator and part time VFX artist so it has to fit into the plan of being able to pay rent in a slow month. So with all that being said here is the plan :) ...

1. Camera - HV-20 I can get it for $927 at Fry's Electronics with no Tax. I used to work there so I can get it at %10 above cost using a friends AP. And I live in Texas so I can get it tax free since I will distribute it in limited form myself if I have to.

2. Build or buy 35mm lense adapter. Will do something like the rig on the other thread. And I already have a Canon 20D and some nice fast sharp lenses. And will buy more lenses since I can use them on both.

3. Make the most of what I have. Illustration and FX background etc. Becouse of what I do for a living all of the software packages are taken care of from editing to FX. Atleast for the most part.

4. Be creative and ruthless on making do and saving money.

5. Creat something I am truely interested in that I can work on for a long time becouse time in many cases can replace money.

Any way thats the plan this is the site http://www.theheavenmovie.com . And I know the subject matter is not to everyones tast but their is a market. And it is what I am interested in. Also note that test images and samples are very early and of course will look better. Honestly most were very rushed.

Any way thanks very much in adance for the feedback.
 
on 2. be aware of the difficulties in using EOS lenses on an adapter - that there is no way to adjust the appature other than mount the lens on the slr body, set it, and mount it back on the video setup.

Depending on the lenses you want to use it may be worthwhile buying some old Nikons, just for the time you'd save.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #4
Thanks Colin and David for the responses. I will have to do more research on the adapters but I thought you could get an adapter with a powered appature control but I could be completly wrong.

As for the length I chose it as my understanding is its the shortest length considered to be a feature atleast by Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, the American Film Institute, and the British Film Institute other groups have longer time. Also it will probobly never really be in theaters but will probobly be on TV. And the main reason is I think thats about the correct running time for the material I have. But we will see how it goes as I finish the writing finaly.

And I am open to any suggestions:)
 
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #5
Oh and here is a round about way of controlling appature http://redrockmicro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3137 And I am pretty sure someone else reverse engineered the way the Canon camera controls the lense and created a small control box.

But I will check on older Nikon and Canon lenses and see what rout makes more sense money wise. Thanks again for the headsup.
 
pat@hpnc.com said:
...American Film Institute, and the British Film Institute other groups have longer time.
Click to expand...

Actually I think it's 40 minutes for these too.

pat@hpnc.com said:
And I am pretty sure someone else reverse engineered the way the Canon camera controls the lense and created a small control box.
Click to expand...

You're probably refering to the ef232 from Birger (www.birger.com) who are re-engineering the device as a Canon mount for the RedOne. It can be currently bought for $980. I've just emailed Brian Valente from RedRock about the possibility of using the ef323 with their M2 adapter and if it cannot be used whether they would consider looking into adapting it.

All in all the HV20, M2 adapter, Birger mount will set you back $2457. Not bad considering the results you ought to be able to get from that. It actually makes a great budget setup for RedOne owners who need a spare and are using Canon EOS lenses on the upcoming mount. It's by no means a replacement but in certain situations it will perform fairly well by comparison I should think.

Cheers

Paul
 
I was also wondering about the 40 minute thing. From what everyone told me, and from everything I have read, you should either make a short that is 15 minutes or shorter, or a feature that is 80 minutes or longer, and usually more like 85-90 minutes. I've never heard anyone calling 40 minutes a feature, but I have heard them saying 40 minutes or less is still a short. The point is, we were told 15 minutes or less because most peoples' patience on a short is very, well, short, and that even 7-8 really good minutes is preferable to 15 minutes that kind of drag.

I know theaters won't play movies that are less than about 75 minutes long generally, and stuff that short is usually animated, from Disney or DreamWorks or something. Now I know you said that you're not interested really in a theatrical release, but from what I have understood 40 minutes is really neither here nor there, it's kind of that nether region.

Of course, if the plan is to put it on an hour-long television spot, it makes perfect sense, because TV shows now are about 40-42 minutes long (ten years ago, they were 44-45, twenty years ago, 46-48 -- *sigh* how depressing). Anyway I'm not trying to tell you how long it should be, haha, just relaying what I have heard and my understanding of the market.
 
I think that the subject may be problematical in that there is no real concrete biblical description of the Abrahamic Religion's heaven and anyone trying to recreate it would be creating their own very personal version. The faith based cinematic works that do well with that market tend to be the ones that follow the existing literature most closely and in this case there really isn't any material to follow.

One man's heaven will be another man's blasphemy.

Asgard! Now there is a heaven that has plenty of literary material to follow and that would be very cinematic... but I'm thinking that isn't what you are looking for even if it was within your budget.

And I'll have to side with those thinking - under 20 minutes or over 85 minutes - if you want to show it at any festivals or get it into any theatres. A 40 minute run time may be workable for a low priced DVD but if you charge more than$9.99 for it the viewer might feel that they aren't getting their monies worth.

With that out of the way, the first thing you do is go to Stu Maschwitz's blog to read all his posts, buy his book- The DV Rebel's Guide and browse through the associated forum. Stu is all about the microbudget and he covers it better than I've seen it covered anywhere else.
 
er, well, I can definitely vouch for stu's blog and especially his book DV Rebel's Guide.

Can't comment too much on Abrahamic Religion, etc. :)
 
pat@hpnc.com said:
As for the length I chose it as my understanding is its the shortest length considered to be a feature atleast by Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, the American Film Institute, and the British Film Institute other groups have longer time. Also it will probobly never really be in theaters but will probobly be on TV.

And I am open to any suggestions:)
Click to expand...

Last I knew a TV hour was 43min and half hour was 21.5 minutes but I would suggest highly checking and knowing these exact numbers.

Also I feel the biggest mistake people make is feeling they have to make something long. Long with no money and a new director quite often = boring. A person that does Six, 5minute shorts will have a much better chance of having one become a popular festival film then 1- 30 minute short. Plus It will likely not be the first one you do because it will probably stink. I feel too many directors think there first film will be fantastic and then when it flops become discouraged, have dept if they tried to make it to long and quit and go do some other career. Think about it what in your life were you really good at the first time you tried? Good most often means practice.

You have the exact right idea in many ways though. Buy the cheapest decent camera you can get your hands on (hv20) pimp it out with a 35mm stills adapter. From there I recomend you make a couple 5-6 minute shorts (99.9% chance these will be bad and that is fine) then make a couple more shorts (if you have some talent what you have learned from previous shorts will probably make these 2 okay) then you make some more shorts (these will probably be good and with any luck one will become a festival hit).

Like I mentioned you have completely the right idea with your budget plan of staying cheap with the camera. By a long way the people I see making the biggest mistake here are the ones with little to no experience and money stretching themselves to buy a complicated, fairly expensive red one camera that they do not have the money to outfit properly or the experience to use. They are clearly setting themselves up for failure and I would believe that a newer director/Dp would make better images with the simpier camera set up you mention then a person that does not know what they are doing with a red. In fact a red used wrong will look far crappier then a hv20.

One more thing if you feel you have to go long stick with the half hour tv model and cut one version at 21.5 minutes for TV and make a 2nd cut at 20 minutes for festivals.

best of luck
 
Good advice I think for sure. My friend Bryan said once that everyone has a certain amount of crap in them to make before they can make something good, i.e. your first shorts are going to be bad, but that's ok, because you learn from them and then hopefully can make something good. I think my first two shorts (well, first since quite a few shorts back in the day that sucked) turned out pretty well overall, I mean they are not what I would call like "good" work in a sense, when I see them now I just think of what I'd want to change, but they were good efforts. I think a few more shorts will be better but still not very good. I think maybe the tenth short from now will be really good, haha.
 
The reason why the film academies and archives, whatnot, consider 40 minutes to be a feature is due to the Silent Era, which started to make movies at this length (a "four reeler").

Most distributors require that a movie be at least 80 minutes long before they consider it a feature. So I'd talk to some potential distributors for your project to see what they expect. Perhaps for a straight-to-DVD project of this nature, it doesn't matter, or maybe it can be paired with something else to add to the length of the DVD. There are plenty of hour-long documentaries on DVD, for example.

But typically, you should be considering something over 80 minutes (for a feature) or under 20 minutes (if you want to make a short for film festivals). Unless, as I said, this is for an hour-slot on TV.
 
Finner said:
Also I feel the biggest mistake people make is feeling they have to make something long. Long with no money and a new director quite often = boring. A person that does Six, 5minute shorts will have a much better chance of having one become a popular festival film then 1- 30 minute short. Plus It will likely not be the first one you do because it will probably stink. I feel too many directors think there first film will be fantastic and then when it flops become discouraged, have dept if they tried to make it to long and quit and go do some other career. Think about it what in your life were you really good at the first time you tried? Good most often means practice.
Click to expand...

words from Heaven. I wish somebody would have talked me out of doing a feature straight out of film school..actually a couple tried and I told my self it was their own squashed dreams, bitterness, etc.

Like Finner said, I thought it would be fantastic .....and it was flawed and boring and took me about 7 years to recover from. For those 7 years I wasn't even able to muster the energy or resources to practice with short projects.

I'm a fairly intelligent and mature person, but I still fell into this ego trap. A lesson learned the very hard way.
 
Good advice. Maybe we can all learn from your mistake insanity so that we don't have to experience that pain and anguish ;) hehe.

I want to direct a feature but I know I'm not ready for that, I think a year and a half from now I will be. If not I will wait another year, etc.
 
Wow thanks very much for all the good advice.

Also I should have given more information about the running time. The 40 minute number was not exact but about as I am still in planning stage. But why I mentioned it is it fit in with where the video is going. Being honest it will probobly be shown at 3ABN its a Seventh Day Adventist Channel that I have contacts with that is always hurting for new content. Or Hope TV another Adventist Channel. Neither have a normal format with true commercials. So I will be tayloring it their needs. It will also go to DVD probobly thru Amazing Facts (www.amazingfacts.org . Also becouse its the best fit and I have contacts their. They have a wide distrabution network using the Adventist Book Centers. I believe their last DVD has already sold over 1 million copies in this system.

Also thanks for the honest and true feedback about peoples first work. And I agree. I also tend to be very harsh judging my own work. Its the only way to get better. So it might end up being a short. But my basic thought is I know I can make look good as I have been an artist/illustrator my entire life. So I have a good understanding of lighting, color, composition etc. And becouse of other short experments I have done I am sure I can get music and narration the target audiance will really enjoy. But as far as pacing etc it could be a complete disaster:)

Also I really am going to think hard and long about the length before really starting production. I would rather it be an amazing short than a terrible long boring project.

And as for film festivals being honest it will not do well becouse of the content and the way its presented. Unless they are chrisitan festivals. So really they are secoundary considerations.

Any way thanks again for all the great advice and if any one has any more I would love to hear it.

Oh and thanks agwah I really liked his voice also. I listened to hundreds and hundreds of people for the narration befor picking Barry.
 
pat@hpnc.com said:
Wow thanks very much for all the good advice.

Also I should have given more information about the running time. The 40 minute number was not exact but about as I am still in planning stage. But why I mentioned it is it fit in with where the video is going. Being honest it will probobly be shown at 3ABN its a Seventh Day Adventist Channel that I have contacts with that is always hurting for new content. Or Hope TV another Adventist Channel. Neither have a normal format with true commercials. So I will be tayloring it their needs. It will also go to DVD probobly thru Amazing Facts (www.amazingfacts.org . Also becouse its the best fit and I have contacts their. They have a wide distrabution network using the Adventist Book Centers. I believe their last DVD has already sold over 1 million copies in this system.

Also thanks for the honest and true feedback about peoples first work. And I agree. I also tend to be very harsh judging my own work. Its the only way to get better. So it might end up being a short. But my basic thought is I know I can make look good as I have been an artist/illustrator my entire life. So I have a good understanding of lighting, color, composition etc. And becouse of other short experments I have done I am sure I can get music and narration the target audiance will really enjoy. But as far as pacing etc it could be a complete disaster:)

Also I really am going to think hard and long about the length before really starting production. I would rather it be an amazing short than a terrible long boring project.

And as for film festivals being honest it will not do well becouse of the content and the way its presented. Unless they are chrisitan festivals. So really they are secoundary considerations.

Any way thanks again for all the great advice and if any one has any more I would love to hear it.

Oh and thanks agwah I really liked his voice also. I listened to hundreds and hundreds of people for the narration befor picking Barry.
Click to expand...

Don't count out the studios. I just met with a bunch in LA and they said everyone went down to Bentonville to talk to WalMart in Dec. They said WalMart owns 35-45 percent of the DVD market and all the studios want to get their products in their stores, so they went down to Bentonville to suckle from the mother hen.

They said the first question WalMart asked everybody was, "What Christian movies do you have?" They said they all went, "Doh!" and now they've all been scrambling to get more Christian content for the past 6 months. Even the Weinsteins. These studios said they've had people in pitching projects that have no business doing it, who have no experience and made themselves look ridiculous--just because there's not enough Christian filmmakers in the biz. And the studios want some of that Passion money.

This market thats not being reached enough is called the "Late Adopters." People in the midwest etc, mostly relatively conservative, who dont mind violence but dont want sex in their movies. They want names though--they're highly attracted to star power, its almost a must with them--if you're playing it safe.

The second question WalMart asked the studios: Now what Hispanic content do you have?
 
km9000 thanks for the heads up on the new scramble for Christian content. I will have to do more research into it. But it is good news.

Paul thanks for the possitive feedback on the narrator. Choosing one was tough and you dont always know if most people will like them as much as you do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top