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Best Macro Prime

Mark Thorpe

Mark Thorpe

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Guys,
I've made the decision to go PL mount with my system and not with the Birger / Canon deal. That said I'm looking around for a very good PL dedicated Macro lens somewhere around the 100 - 135mm mark. I am one of those feared 'Noobians' with this tech so rip gently.

Thus far lens wise I am going for the Peleng 8mm, a Red 18-50mm and have a Tamron f2.8 90mm on the way. I will get that lens retrofitted with a PL Mount in the U.K. The Peleng will be used sparingly maybe within shipwrecks and fresh water mountain lakes. The 18-50mm a general work horse lense and the Tamron as one solution to a macro app. I want to get real close options too without the need for achromatic diopters etc so please fire away any great glass you may think could work.

Cheers,
Mark.
__________

EDIT: OK, I just realized where I posted. Any mods wanna send this to the Glass forum.
 
If you have the money, the Arri 200mm macro is awesome. You can get down to 1:1 magnification and it automatically adjusts the stop for the extension loss. I believe the 100mm also does 1:1 and might be more useful as a general purpose lens as well. Love the Cooke 135 as well - it focuses down to 2'6.
 
Cheers CrewPix
The main issue here is also distance from the lens. I am planning to shoot some extreme macro but in relatively poor underwater viz. Read that as lots of particulate between the flat port of the camera housing and subject. Lighting will be a bitch but nonetheless not impossible. Its all that bloody snow I'm worried about.

Any ideas on costs for above mentioned? Will also be doing my homework as I am on a cell phone modem here in the outer confines of KwaZulu-Natal (Zulu Land) in southern Africa.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
CamDiver said:
Guys,
I've made the decision to go PL mount with my system and not with the Birger / Canon deal. That said I'm looking around for a very good PL dedicated Macro lens somewhere around the 100 - 135mm mark. I am one of those feared 'Noobians' with this tech so rip gently.

Thus far lens wise I am going for the Peleng 8mm, a Red 18-50mm and have a Tamron f2.8 90mm on the way. I will get that lens retrofitted with a PL Mount in the U.K. The Peleng will be used sparingly maybe within shipwrecks and fresh water mountain lakes. The 18-50mm a general work horse lense and the Tamron as one solution to a macro app. I want to get real close options too without the need for achromatic diopters etc so please fire away any great glass you may think could work.
Click to expand...


EDIT: Didn't mean to go off topic. Just meant to give you a heads up on possible relatively inexpensive PL wide angles since there aren't many and they will be gobbled up soon.

You may want to keep an eye out for a 14mm Canon pl mount conversion as it is probably the most cost effective underwater wide lens at about 90 degrees (your 18mm RED is only about 65 degrees). Otherwise you start getting into the Zeiss 10s and 12s at 10K to 15K used or the 8R at 30K.

The 18 RED is about the same wide angle as your Z1 with no conversion so if the fathom can be made to work well it would give the same coverage you have been getting. It would be even more with a 14mm. The big issue will be if the Fathom can be made to work with the physically larger lenses like the 18-50 and such - I suspect that is going to be the problem. (The F900 Amphibicam uses a similar type of optic but is a combination of plastic and glass because of these size issues. You get into some huge (read very heavy/very expensive) glass elements when you convert larger lenses.

As you can see from all these factors, there's a reason I've been praying to the Birger gods.
 
Mark,

Isn't the Tamron 90mm you are getting a macro lens?

I've been using Nikon mounted Tamron 90 macros on my Aaton (using a Nikon to Aaton adapter) since the late 80's for natural history subjects. It's a really nice lens. Goes to 1:2 and the focus rotation is in the "cine" direction.

Newer models of the Tamron 90 go to 1:1. I used a B4 mounted one, on a Varicam, for a "Planet Earth" BBC shoot a few years ago. Being able to go 1:1 without a tube is mighty convenient -especially if you are UW.

-Michael
 
Hi Michael,
I was switched on to the Tamron by an English guy who was also involved with the Planet Earth and Blue Planet series. He had only great things to say about it. I was aware of this lens but I tend to do extreme macro at times underwater which could call for magnification greater than 1:1 hence the reason I was putting feelers out there.

OT: Is that the FD150-600mm on your rig shown in your web page? Looks huge. How does that perform? Great glass fro birds obviously?

Cheers for the feedback and good to hear from someone with first hand NH experience with this glass.

Best,
Mark.
 
CamDiver said:
Cheers CrewPix
The main issue here is also distance from the lens. I am planning to shoot some extreme macro but in relatively poor underwater viz. Read that as lots of particulate between the flat port of the camera housing and subject. Lighting will be a bitch but nonetheless not impossible. Its all that bloody snow I'm worried about.

Any ideas on costs for above mentioned? Will also be doing my homework as I am on a cell phone modem here in the outer confines of KwaZulu-Natal (Zulu Land) in southern Africa.

Cheers,
Mark.
Click to expand...

An old trick is to mount a long focale length large format lens in front of a prime lens to give you more working room for lighting. I made up a few of these rigs in the past for nature photogs. Used to use old Aero Ektars made for 9"x9" roll film ariel cameras as they use to be common and dirt cheap. Basically you need a lens of sufficent clear aperture so that it will not vingetet (sp) with the prime you are using.
 
Best Macro Prime

We do a conversion of the Zeiss Contax 60mm and 100mm Macro lenses to PL mount, accessible iris, focus gear.

I do not have any completed lenses in stock at the moment, but we do have lenses in process.

If you require something immediately, we can't help with a sale, but if you can wait a little while, we can probably help you.

Marty Oppenheimer
Oppenheimer Camera Products
Seattle
 
CamDiver said:
Guys,
I've made the decision to go PL mount with my system and not with the Birger / Canon deal. That said I'm looking around for a very good PL dedicated Macro lens somewhere around the 100 - 135mm mark. I am one of those feared 'Noobians' with this tech so rip gently.

Thus far lens wise I am going for the Peleng 8mm, a Red 18-50mm and have a Tamron f2.8 90mm on the way. I will get that lens retrofitted with a PL Mount in the U.K. The Peleng will be used sparingly maybe within shipwrecks and fresh water mountain lakes. The 18-50mm a general work horse lense and the Tamron as one solution to a macro app. I want to get real close options too without the need for achromatic diopters etc so please fire away any great glass you may think could work.

Cheers,
Mark.
__________

EDIT: OK, I just realized where I posted. Any mods wanna send this to the Glass forum.
Click to expand...

Mark,

have you ever heard about P=S Technik company that comes from München.

They are about to make Interchangeable Mount System (IMS) on RED for me and many others in about 3 weeks from now.

What does it mean Interchangeable Mount System (IMS).

"The P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System consists of an intermediate positive lock mount on camera side and various lens mount adapters (picture below). P+S Technik also offers the intermediate mount on camera side as an open standard.
It is available for purchase for integration in your camera projects. Please contact us for more details by email to info@pstechnik.de.

Highlights:

- New standard for single chip cameras
- Ease-of-use change of lens mounts
- More than eight lens mount available
- No more adjustments necessary
- Makes a wide range range of lenses available


Adapter mounts available:

- PL-Mount P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System
- Panavision Mount P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System
- Nikon Mount Enhanced P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System
- Canon EF Mount P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System
- Canon FD Mount P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System
- Zeiss Contax Mount P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System
- BNC-R Mount P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System
- Leica R Mount P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System
- Leica M Mount P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System
- B4 Mount P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System"

MORE>>>

So there is no need for immediate purchase of PL lenses, if you need them you could always rent it.

Photo still glass you could use with your favorite DSLR and also with your RED camera.

That's something else.

NO NEED OF SWAPPING MOUNT!!!!

YOU JUST NEED TO SWAP ADAPTERS ON IMS.
 
Sanjin, that's wonderful! Thank you for the info. I see their prices for adapter mounts (very reasonable), but have they determined a price for the Red IMS system yet? Can you give us a rough idea of how much?

Also, will they have it ready to ship in 3 weeks? Or are they starting work on making it in 3 weeks?

Thanks!
 
CamDiver said:
Hi Michael,
I was switched on to the Tamron by an English guy who was also involved with the Planet Earth and Blue Planet series. He had only great things to say about it. I was aware of this lens but I tend to do extreme macro at times underwater which could call for magnification greater than 1:1 hence the reason I was putting feelers out there.

OT: Is that the FD150-600mm on your rig shown in your web page? Looks huge. How does that perform? Great glass fro birds obviously?

Cheers for the feedback and good to hear from someone with first hand NH experience with this glass.

Best,
Mark.
Click to expand...

Hi Mark,

The 150-600mm has been my main lens for bird filming since the late 80's. It allows for finding subjects quickly at lower magnification, crashing in fast and refocusing with one hand. And it's minimum focus is ten feet! Some long FL primes might be sharper, but the 150-600 allows for getting shots that would otherwise be missed. I've been enjoying shooting with it on the Red One Camera since 2008 began. Pix attached.

Shooting greater than 1:1 UW must be quite tricky for camera stability and positioning. I've only done it in controlled tank set ups. You can use lots of extention (tubes, bellows) with reversed lenses, or the lens stacking trick Chuck mentions. It all gets fairly cumbersome -especially in a housing.

There are specialty high magnification lenses available. I use a Nikon 35mm macro lens and a Minolta 12.5mm micro lens to get in the 2-10X range using limited extention. Zeiss, Olympus and Lecia make such lenses as well. They are small "lens heads" without focusing barrels, like microscope lenses but with a diaphragm. I'm fairly certain that they all share the same screw thread on the back end -my Nikon and Minolta ones do. They screw into a simple adapter -to whatever tube, bellows or camera body you are using. I go Nikon-into a Nikon adapter-to my Aaton. For the Red I plan to adapt to a Canon FD mount on the camera.

Les Bosher in the UK makes adapters to go from Nikon mount lenses to the PL mount. The lenses won't focus to infinity but are fine for macro use.

There is a specialty Canon EOS lens that might be the ticket with the Birger mount; the 65 mm macro. It does 1-5X.

Quite a world of macro shooting to do underwater! The Red One is up to it for sure.

Michael
 
Zeiss made a series of macro barrel mount lens like those Nikors. I think they were called Luminars if I remember right. Not very fast and they have become very espensive over the years. I used to run a little side line business back when doing macro and microphotography mainly for insurance company work. One set of lenses that I found that held up very well to macro power (1x-10x) were the 16mm format Baltars that were availble in barrel mount (no focusing threads or camera mount) I see them once in a while on ebay. Also I think Olmpus has/had a series of similar lenses. All of these type lenses of course have a very short working distance which presents a problem when installed in an under water housing. The idea I brought up about stacking lenses helps to aliveate some of that, but as Michael says presents it's own set of mechanical problems.

Just saw this on ebay. I've seen this and other focale lengths go for hundreds each.

http://cgi.ebay.com/luminar-zeiss-4...ryZ30076QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Michael,

Just reread your thread and I see that you mention the Olympus lenses. Did not mean to repeat what you said. Damn that speed reading course. lol So far as the thread on the back of the macro lenses like the Luminars it's what's called an RMS (Royal Microscope Society) thread. The same as what is used on microscope objectives.
 
Chuck is absolutely right about trying to use the micro lenses in an UW housing. The lens inside and subject outside would have to be right against the port. It's probable that only side or backlit subjects could be filmed -or the housing shadow would be an impossible issue.

When filming underwater subjects (in tanks) with these lenses I either use small tanks made out of #2 glass microscope coverslips, or I film through portholes of coverslip glass, in the sides of bigger tanks. The thin glass cuts down on distortion.

You'd have more working room with the stacked lens solution Chuck suggests. I just did a quick test with a Nikon 35mm f1.4 mounted in reverse on the front of a Nikon 200mm macro. There is about a one inch working distance from the subject. On a 35mm full frame camera a subject 4-5mm wide fills the frame -and you have a small range of focus ability with the 200mm focus ring.

Chuck here is a link I just came across to info on various micro lenses <http://www.markerink.org/WJM/HTML/microlen.htm>

I'll keep a look out for those Baltars.

All the Best,

Michael
 
Thanks for the link Michael. The lens stacking arrangement I was talking about was using a large format (4x5, 8x10 inch etc.) long focale length (400, 600mm etc.) lens mounted on the mattebox rails. This allowed you to move it back and forth in relationship to the taking lens on the camera. This allowed a substanial gain in working distance. This would require a custom snoot on the underwater housing of some size to say the least. lol
 
Chuck,

You mentioned Aero Ektars (for price) and 400-600mm FL for the front mounted lens. What sort of taking lens on the camera? If the front lens isn't hard mounted to the taking lens do you use a light baffle between the lenses to keep out stray light? I think I've seen pictures of rigs like this set up on a rail. I'd like to try it myself someday.

Thanks,

Michael
 
Michael Male said:
Chuck,

You mentioned Aero Ektars (for price) and 400-600mm FL for the front mounted lens. What sort of taking lens on the camera? If the front lens isn't hard mounted to the taking lens do you use a light baffle between the lenses to keep out stray light? I think I've seen pictures of rigs like this set up on a rail. I'd like to try it myself someday.

Thanks,

Michael
Click to expand...

Hi Michael,

No light baffling needed. Poke around on ebay and look for either LARGE format lenses or process lenses in longer focale lenghts as they give you the working distance from the subject that you need. The main thing is to get a large enough aperture so that the cone of light won't vingete (sp.) to the taking lens on the camera. That lens can be just about anything (longer focale lengths preferd) but something like a 50mm on up would be good as they require a smaller diameter aux. lens. All your doing here is using the front lens as an extended reach diopter.
 
martyopp said:
We do a conversion of the Zeiss Contax 60mm and 100mm Macro lenses to PL mount, accessible iris, focus gear.

I do not have any completed lenses in stock at the moment, but we do have lenses in process.

If you require something immediately, we can't help with a sale, but if you can wait a little while, we can probably help you.

Marty Oppenheimer
Oppenheimer Camera Products
Seattle
Click to expand...

Marty,

Is this the Zeiss/Contax 60mm f2.8 Y/C mount lens ? the barrel extends in the usual macro fashion ? or is it another lanes you use for starters.

I may be interested in one.

thanks

Dave
 
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