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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Best low-budget field recording options?

Steve, can you tell me more about why this Sound Devices Mix Pre is important? Is it something I will have to attach onto the camera platform or whatever?

Miille, what Sennheiser would you recommend in that 650-750 range that you mentioned? Can you give me a link?

thanks guys!
 
RED audio board is good but I think you will find that running through the Mix Pre and then line in to the RED will give you better results because:

Mic Preamps are better on the SD mixers
Tactile mixing/level adjustment
High Pass Filters (for rolling off low end Freq when you don't want them)
Peak Limiters
Highly accurate metering
and a bunch of under the hood technical reasons

And running line level into the RED tends to be the cleanest way to record to it. The Mix Pre will give you a clean line output. Easy to line up test tone on RED meters, etc.

The quality Sennheiser mics generally fall into the $1000+ category. The ME66 shotgun mic is one of their affordable microphones and I had one but only used it for low budget stuff. Wasn't a fan otherwise.

Have a look here http://sound-room.com/

The Oktava mics are actually very good budget mics and could be configured into a stereo setup, and having multiple capsules will give you options. I have an MK012 and have used it on critical dialogue with good results. It's not a Scheops but it holds it's own. The guys at Sound-Room are good too. They'll take care of you. They go through the mics carefully, mapping out the actual freq response of each mic.

If money was no object, I could point you in other directions.
 
Tom - shoot a PM to Lauri Kettunen, he has the best info on nature audio anywhere, possibly in the world. He can give you great info on relatively inexpensive parabolic set-ups, which are really superior for this kind of work. He has field tested a lot of audio options.

The MixPre is great - I used mine a lot before the audio upgrade. It's super clean, noise floor is superior to any handheld device. (I have a ZoomH4, and it doesn't have the hiss that you're describing in your H4n. It's pretty clean, but I've always used external mics with it, never the onboard mics.) It does add weight, though, and you basically have to strap it to the camera to approximate anything portable (Sound Devices also makes the MM-1, which is single channel, and lighter).

Senny ME-67 is a very good budget long shotgun - and you can get a pair of these for less than the price of a single Schoeps, which will have advantages in acquiring nature audio - the Schoeps will have a wider polar pattern which has its advantages, but if you are trying to get specific, rather than ambient, sounds, a pair of Sennys would work well - you could also, with the MixPre, get an ME-67, for directional work, and mix it with something with a wider pattern - I think the ME66 is quite good for ambient nature, and if you ran two channels into your mixer, you could get a great mix of ambient and directional, for not a lot of money.

MixPre will add weight and is a mixer, not a recorder, so you really must tether it to a recorder/camera to use it...it is great on camera, and gives you audio pots to monitor more effectively, but you can't just run around with it, like a field recorder.

The field recorder that I have, that I really like, is the Edirol R4 Pro with the Oade Brothers mod - Doug Oade replaces the preamps, lowering the noise floor, and it sounds pretty much indistinguishable from a Sound Devices recorder, and doesn't weigh much, so good for field use - also 4 channels, so you can create mixes in post-

a little pricey but cheaper than Sound Devices and very flexible, too...

get the super cheap Rode blimp, great bargain for wind reduction - just be sure it fits any mic that you purchase, a Senny me 67 may be too long...

one other idea that I use in field work a lot - a lot! - is to just go wireless. Bring a lot of batteries. Get a buttplug and a good field mic and put it on one of these - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/286148-REG/AKG_KM231_1_231_1_Miniature_Tripod_Microphone.html

(its little rubber legs do a great job of sticking to canyon rock...)

then you have complete wireless mic placement freedom, untethered from the camera, and the camera easily picks up the audio from 50 yards away (or more, that's about as far as I've placed mine...)

some ideas...
 
Tom,

also I have Sound Devices MixPre, it's great, light, easy of use, can deliver Sound Devices audio quality with a good mic, (btw, I have Rode NTG3 that is very good for hot or humid climate conditions).

With MixPre you can record on R1 or mini recorder like Nagra ARES-ML.

AresMLRecVertical.jpg

Nagra ARES-ML handheld mini recorder.

Report said: "NO NOISE!>> A +4 or -10 signal from an external source is super clean with no evidence of hiss or noise. Awesome.">>LINK>>>

I will get my hands on that hand-held Nagra recorder soon.
 
As was mentioned before, the Mix Pre is a mic pre amp that takes the very low level current from a microphone, and amplifiy it to something more useful. As was said, the Red has this, but of lesser quality. (as good as they are, it's primary function is to record video, audio is second. And considering the price, it was no doubt expected to be used with a pro sound package on par with the pro camera.) The Mix Pre is recommended, because it's simple, of very hi quality, and low noise.

Again, considering the situation you have mentioned, i would NOT use a shotgun for what you are trying to do. By all means, bring one; you never know what you will run in to in the field. But the pickup pattern of the shotgun, even a stereo one, is just much to narrow for what you are describing. the resulting sound will be very 'narrow' sounding and lack the wideness that will match your shots. In parlance, it would be like using a really long 200 - 300 mm telephoto lens to shoot a expansive landscape or a large sunset.

I recommended the X-Y single point stereo microphones for their ease of use, and their good middle ground, (speaking in terms of how wide the stereo field is) giving you a lot of options. Again, there are fancier options out there, (two mic setups). While they can be stunning, they are complicated and time consuming. And while they may give you a better sound, frankly, if you don't set them up just right, you might do more harm than good. Mid-side mics are really cool, but unless it decodes to stereo in the microphone, you have to process later on, and it can be a pain. (though if you can get it to work, it does sound good.)

This is the Sennheiser mic I was referring to. I'm a big Sennheiser fan, partly for their sound, and partly because they handle the rigors of field recording so well. They are well known for taking humidity. (As a side note, if it's humid where you are going, pack several of those desiccant packs with your mics to keep them dry.)
This is the Rode. a great bang for you buck mic.
If you feel you were going to be shooting a lot of expansive vistas, And had the cash for a second microphone, i'd serously look at the Crown SASS mic. It's really great at capturing those wide expansive type stereo images.

As far as the hand held recorders, yes, they sound pretty good. But no where near as good as what is described herein. If you have the caliber of project that will pay for a 10 month shoot, why skimp? You just bought a 25,000 to 50,000 dollar camera! It would be like putting a Fisher Price 'My First Camera' lens on your Red. Kinda seems out of balance! Also, none of these had held recorders can deal with sync. And 10 months of shooting is a lot of hand syncing to do in the Avid.

In the end, if i was buying, and assuming i already had the requisite shotgun, i'd buy the Mix Pre, The Rode or the Senny, the Rode blimp, and stands. If i had the coin, i'd go for a SASS as well, if i could swing it.
 
Just to add: it's always better to buy 'good' microphones second hand than buy middle of the road/mediocre ones new. A Sennheiser 416 can be found with a bit of patience for 500, sometimes less. If you sell it you will not lose one dime. Sennheiser's ME line is, well, not so exciting. If you're not into 'shotguns', there's this dark horse, the AKG 460 or 480 line. An excellent microphone system, you can find 'pairs' second hand for about $350.00! This is an insane bargain. There's all kinds of capsules out there omni, cardiod, hyper-cardiod, shot gun short and long. Check the Tapers' fori for used ones, they're highly regarded by them too.
Be aware though, that all mic systems that employ changeable capsules are more prone to problems in humid and condensing atmospheres. That goes also for Schoeps. There's only one mic that never ever made any problems on set or on location that's the MKH 416 or any other from the MKH line. The MKH50 and 40 mics are very good but hard to find and generally too expensive.
Also, don't forget, the 'shotgun' effect comes with a price, that is, there's a 'lobe' in the back of the mic pointing to the opposite direction. Positioning of any microphone is critical but especially so with shotgun microphones.
A word to 'stereo': though not as critical with pure ambient sound recording but still: 'left' and 'right' is defined by the position of the camera. If you i.e. point your camera in the opposite direction than before and don't move the microphones you'll have left/right reversed. If you i.e. have a waterfall towards the right and an owl in a tree towards the left and pan your camera from left to right and not your microphones at the same time, your sound stereo field will be very confusing ;-)
 
I still think with nature stuff that you will want something directional and something ambient. Directional (shotgun) works great for specific sounds, like wildlife, and something ambient for things like night sounds, crickets, with a broader pattern. Parabolic is still best of all, but these aren't always your most mobile choice in a fast environment. Or for a long hike...so they are somewhat application-dependent.


If you are shooting for IMAX and want to get a little fancy, try the Holophone options: http://www.holophone.com/products_h4.html

I have not used these personally, but I know a couple people who have used them and liked them quite a bit...
 
How about the Rode NT4?
 
From a self noise perspective, it is hard to beat the Sennheiser MKH line. I have owned the MKH 60, 800 Twins, 8020, and 8050, and any of them would excel at the job at hand (20, 30, and 50 would be great too). If you can afford a Sound Devices recorder, that would be one of the best ways to go, otherwise you should get acceptable results direct to camera (v2 audio boards). Direct is not the best, but your primary limiting factor is likely microphone selection and technique. Once you have at least that taken care of, then you can look at higher end electronics front end. Do a cost analysis and figure out if it wouldn't actually be better to rent or even hire out a recordist.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
RED audio board is good but I think you will find that running through the Mix Pre and then line in to the RED will give you better results because:

Mic Preamps are better on the SD mixers
Tactile mixing/level adjustment
High Pass Filters (for rolling off low end Freq when you don't want them)
Peak Limiters
Highly accurate metering
and a bunch of under the hood technical reasons

And running line level into the RED tends to be the cleanest way to record to it. The Mix Pre will give you a clean line output. Easy to line up test tone on RED meters, etc.
Click to expand...

Steve makes a lot of really good points. External mic pots are great. I personally own and use a Sound Devices 302 and MM1, which I plug into my RED all of the time. I usually only do a direct mic just for what people call "nat sound". Also I did this with every camera before the RED as well, it just provides more control and I can see the meters as I shoot and control at the same time.

My simple "Yes" earlier was that I feel as a digital recorder the RED ONE is better than a small hand-held device like a Zoom. The external controls and the RED in line level has worked great for me. As good and better than any other HD camera I used previously.
 
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