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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Best CAM for the Buck in these times

Nicholaus James

Nicholaus James

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Maybe I'm just looking for affirmation here, but to get the most from a camera for the cheapest price, I'm looking into this kind of set up:

A 2/3" Scarlet, (Still on the fence with a fixed lens or a prime) with a 35mm adapter.

With this set up, I would be getting 35mm DoF, 1-120 fps, RAMPING, and timelapse. Seems pretty strong for keeping the camera's budget in a sub-10k price range with a healthy margin.

What am I losing? Well, of course, resolution. But, with HD considered satisfactory to most audiences, working with 3K should be plenty.
Dynamic range and only working with REDcode 42.
And, with the 35mm adapter, some light loss and maybe some sharpness.

I think trained eye people will say this isn't enough, but I think to a general viewing audience it will show a very professional, if not cinematic image.

And, I am very grounded in the fact content trumps all. So that doesn't need to be iterated.

Am I coming from out of left field on this one guys?
Does this sound like a good idea in getting in RED with the most features without busting the bank?
 
Does one really need a 35mm adapter to get a shallow DOF with the 2/3 Scarlett interchangeable lens version? Not having to get the adapter would save $1000 right there. I thought 2/3 Scarlett will get a Shallow DOF as opposed to a Sony Z7 or Ex3? Which is what makes it bang for the buck.
 
It will be more shallow than the Z7 or EX3, but still not up to par with 35mm.

Plus, I have a slew of Nikon lenses that I want to use. And at 2/3", I won't have much on the wider side of f.o.v.
They'll all be too telephoto.
 
scenedirector said:
It will be more shallow than the Z7 or EX3, but still not up to par with 35mm.

Plus, I have a slew of Nikon lenses that I want to use. And at 2/3", I won't have much on the wider side of f.o.v.
They'll all be too telephoto.
Click to expand...

ah ok. At least there will be some shallow DOF so that if you still require that effect you can get it immediately without getting the adapter. Then when you need more shallow DOF, you can get the adapter at a later time thus spreading the costs out more.
 
GPSchnyder said:
You'll also lose mobility with the Fixed plus 35mm Adapter Setup. Not that this must be a Problem, but you should know it. And I would wait what the dof of the Scarlet looks like for the fixed. Maybe it's enough for you?
Click to expand...

I agree, I want to wait and see what the DOF on the 2/3 Scarlet is. It may be good enough for me. One important factor for me that I hope the Scarlet will have is not having to use a 35mm adapter. First because it's an extra cost. Second, it's one more thing you have to set up and configure. I don't mind mobility because I plan on having the camera fully rigged up with rails and a mattebox and all the accessories.
 
I think the fixed lens on the 2/3 Scarlet is going to be far better than people are speculating. The one and only reason I'm not buying the 2/3 fixed over the s35 is because I own a set of 35mm primes. If I didn't already own them and want to put them to good use I would buy the 2/3 fixed in a heartbeat. As far as shallow depth of field goes, I think you're going to get better results than you might think. Don't rush out and buy an adaptor without shooting with the fixed lens. It may suit your needs without the added hardware.
 
I would suggest that with the use of an adapter (especially one in the 1K range) you might consider that you will probably be incorporating whatever quality compromises and flaws that are inherent in 35mm adapters at a very high resolution. You may want to consider just shooting straight.

While there are obvious advantages to 35mm DOF, there have been and are many great films that are not dependent on it. And a number that have chosen to "overcome" it -- Citizen Kane being the most famous example.
 
i wouldn't want to shoot a piece of spinning ground glass or a vibrating whatever at 3K...it would be a nightmare...the s35 is the way to go. especially if you already have lenses.
 
Gary Stone said:
i wouldn't want to shoot a piece of spinning ground glass or a vibrating whatever at 3K...it would be a nightmare...the s35 is the way to go. especially if you already have lenses.
Click to expand...

Agreed. As I said before the set up and configuring would not be fun at hi-res. I have hope that an adapter won't be really that necessary with the Scarlet. I would think that shallow DOF was something on the mind of the designers and a be a huge selling point over the competition (along with res and frame rate). Sure I don't expect a true "35mm film camera DOF" from the Scarlet but I would hope it'll be good enough for most of us and far more than the DOF the cameras under the $10,000 price range offer (minus adapter of course).
 
Mick van Rossum said:
The DOF of the Scarlet will be the same as any other 2/3 camera. There is no reason to expect more than from a Digibeta , DVC-Pro or HD cam or XD cam camera with a 2/3 chip...
Click to expand...

Better, faster Lens doesn't change that? I mean, what is the T-Stop of this other cams? (to see what Scarlet would be capable of doing) Is there someone who has some footage or can point to it that is shot with a 2/3" Cam and a T2.4?

George
 
GPSchnyder said:
Better, faster Lens doesn't change that? I mean, what is the T-Stop of this other cams? (to see what Scarlet would be capable of doing) Is there someone who has some footage or can point to it that is shot with a 2/3" Cam and a T2.4?

George
Click to expand...

Most commonly used lenses ENG (zoom) lenses are between 1.6 and 2, while the superior Digiprimes are from 1.6 to 1.9. Footage shot with 2/3 cameras with stops aroud 2.4 you can find everyday on CNN or any other TV news channel...... The smaller the recording image the easier it is to build a high speed lens for it. Canon used to have a super 8 camera with a 1.0 zoom lens...... (310 XLS)
 
scenedirector said:
It will be more shallow than the Z7 or EX3, but still not up to par with 35mm.

Plus, I have a slew of Nikon lenses that I want to use. And at 2/3", I won't have much on the wider side of f.o.v.
They'll all be too telephoto.
Click to expand...

I would recommend S35 Scarlet. I realize it's nearly 3X the price, but then you wouldn't need a 35mm adapter, you gain a lot more features and don't incur the trade-offs that come with using a 35mm adapter system -- additional light loss, ground glass issues, loss of resolution, etc..

I don't see a $1K 35mm adapter working well on a camera like Scarlet. Adapters like the Letus 35 Ultimate are more expensive, partially because they have superior ground glass characteristics to better handle the resolutions of the higher-resolution cameras. But they also provide variable GG rotational speeds, off-center GG, backfocus adjustments, etc.. With the way most 35mm adapters affect HD cameras and effectively reduce resolution, we have to consider what those same optical properties would mean for a 3K Bayer sensor. It may work well, it may not. And I foresee that an adapter like the Letus 35 Ultimate is going to be closer to what will give the best results on a camera like Scarlet.

So, by the time you consider 2/3" Scarlet + a good 35mm adapter. That's essentially the same price as the S35mm Scarlet, which is a more elegant and capable solution.

Just my $0.02.

People will be using 35mm adapters on Scarlet. No doubt about that. It will be interesting to see the results and which adapters make for the best images.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I would recommend S35 Scarlet. I realize it's nearly 3X the price, but then you wouldn't need a 35mm adapter, you gain a lot more features and don't incur the trade-offs that come with using a 35mm adapter system -- additional light loss, ground glass issues, loss of resolution, etc..

I don't see a $1K 35mm adapter working well on a camera like Scarlet. Adapters like the Letus 35 Ultimate are more expensive, partially because they have superior ground glass characteristics to better handle the resolutions of the higher-resolution cameras. But they also provide variable GG rotational speeds, off-center GG, backfocus adjustments, etc.. With the way most 35mm adapters affect HD cameras and effectively reduce resolution, we have to consider what those same optical properties would mean for a 3K Bayer sensor. It may work well, it may not. And I foresee that an adapter like the Letus 35 Ultimate is going to be closer to what will give the best results on a camera like Scarlet.

So, by the time you consider 2/3" Scarlet + a good 35mm adapter. That's essentially the same price as the S35mm Scarlet, which is a more elegant and capable solution.

Just my $0.02.

People will be using 35mm adapters on Scarlet. No doubt about that. It will be interesting to see the results and which adapters make for the best images.
Click to expand...

Jeff is right. Might as well wait for Scarlet S35, you will be spending the same amount most likely. I would get Scarlet 2/3 interchangeable and try to get some of the look, by which lenses you use.
 
2/3" DOF will be just fine for me. No adapter needed, spend the money on good lenses
 
I really hope this camera comes out this year. We're in pre-production right now, securing locations, 2 remaining talent spots and have even started shooting some SD footage of scenes for storyboards. After getting our hands on the EX3 we decided to purchase two cameras rather than rent the Red -- but we haven't purchased the Sonys yet!! If the Scarlet comes out and is actually price-comparable to the EX3 and meets the user-friendliness and quality of the EX3, we'll purchase 2 scarlets instead.

It will be interesting how the Scarlet's DOF matches up to the EX3s with Letus, right? Though mobility would be a HUGE plus in the scarlet column even if the DOF isn't quite as tight

Hello btw! I hope to be a frequent visitor on these boards!
 
Chamber005 said:
I really hope this camera comes out this year. We're in pre-production right now, securing locations, 2 remaining talent spots and have even started shooting some SD footage of scenes for storyboards. After getting our hands on the EX3 we decided to purchase two cameras rather than rent the Red -- but we haven't purchased the Sonys yet!! If the Scarlet comes out and is actually price-comparable to the EX3 and meets the user-friendliness and quality of the EX3, we'll purchase 2 scarlets instead.

It will be interesting how the Scarlet's DOF matches up to the EX3s with Letus, right? Though mobility would be a HUGE plus in the scarlet column even if the DOF isn't quite as tight

Hello btw! I hope to be a frequent visitor on these boards!
Click to expand...

Welcome! I would like to see a comparison also, but I think Scarlets DOF should do just fine.
 
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