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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

BBC's Red Technical hold?

Redcine was never sold as a conform tool, we have been given redcine for free, which is brilliant considering what it does, a program that can apply a basic grade 4k raw footage and output 2K and 4K dpx, now we can buy relatively cheap software like crimson and rubbermonkey that gives redcine the abilty to conform and output files for fcp and avid. I personally think the red workflow is pretty straightforward, no expensive vtr decks and no telecine suite in order to view our rushes. What do some people expect when you are dealing with 4K files, it is going to take time to process. The biggest problem is not the workflow it is that producers haven't got use to the idea of a tapeless workflow, which is a bit scary for alot of them. The beauty of tape and film is they have a archive created as they shoot. Most production and post production companies are set up to deal with tape, it what they know, so educating them will take a bit of time but it is already changing so quickly. I don't see how having a cheap verison of scratch is going to help, redcine with either of the programmes above does what scratch cine can do but without playout directly to tape. but even then scratch can only play out to tape footage shot at 4k 2:1, and then footage would have to be exposed very well in order to use the playout without processing out with noise reduction. I think in a few years when pc's have caught up with red's advancements then the workflow we already have will be great because it will be so much quicker. Also the need for fast archiving in the form of some sort of large capacity optical disk will make working with files a whole lot safer.
 
I think this is a case of the BBC being notoriously slow on the uptake when it comes to new technologies. As mentioned before there are several independent companies making productions with the BBC using Red and we're currently working on a feature with their in-house drama department.

This all appears to be more to do with their own in-house set-up (especially for tv drama and doccos) - and let's face it, it does take quite some setting up, more so on such a large scale, which is why it's probably quite attractive for them to let a reliable company with a proven track record take the strain. We're also working on a large ITV production that's using Red so I think Red are gradually making in-roads in the tv market - it's just a matter of time.
 
davecw said:
I think this is a case of the BBC being notoriously slow on the uptake when it comes to new technologies.
Click to expand...

I know a handful of people who work for the BBC, and although they all love what the BBC manages to get done, they all hate the fact that the BBC still seems to operate like a pre-war gentlemans' club. If there's an expensive way of doing things,they'd much rather do that than take any sort of risk with something new.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
Me: H-D-C-A-M It's cinema quality.

He: Oh, OK, Can you send us a 16mm copy so that we could have a look?
Click to expand...

Wow. 16mm film as a preview format only 6 years ago?! What did they require before that, papyrus? Sounds like if you sent them a hard drive full of footage they would ask you to forward the screwdriver to open the little metal box and get the pictures out.
 
You know, I love all the Red innovation, but I really think that before any more time and effort is spent on new cameras like Scarlet and Epic, or other things like Red Rays or Red Ranches this whole post things needs to be sorted out - and fast. Sure there are solutions out there, but the workflow is just too complicated. I know that sounds overly simplistic, but in the end, that's what it needs to be.

I really don't understand the holdup with FCP, especially seeing they had such a supposed jump on things, but this is getting rather long in the tooth.

Since the arrival of Red, acquisition has become a dream, I just hope the post doesn't become its nightmare.
 
Hi All,

Sorry couldn't post earlier but had to clarify with BBC this morning in case anything had changed!

For in-house HD productions the BBC limit what codecs can be used for file based acquisition to DVCPRO-100 and AVC-I.

Shooting RED for out-house BBC productions/co-productions with external post production is okay subject to them approving the post route.

Jonathan
 
Should add that "Technical Hold" is just the BBC mechanism that flags up that an out-house productions need to talk to the right people at the BBC to have the post route approved.

Keep in mind the needs for in-house broadcast television production, transmission and archiving is very different from feature films and high end TV drama.
 
It's so funny they have all those guidelines on the acquisition formats where, at the end of the day, they encode it to MPEG-2 and broadcast at 7Mbps anyway (one third the data rate of HDV, which they do not accept).

There is some beautiful material shot in standard def and there is some crap shot in 4k. Why not simply look at the picture and make a judgement?

How about dirty lens, shaky cammera. severe lens distortion, lens reflections, vignetting, etc.. that BBC proudly sneak into their flagship multimillion dollar productions?
 
digitalsafari@mac.com said:
Should add that "Technical Hold" is just the BBC mechanism that flags up that an out-house productions need to talk to the right people at the BBC to have the post route approved.

Keep in mind the needs for in-house broadcast television production, transmission and archiving is very different from feature films and high end TV drama.
Click to expand...

Archiving. We use catDV, DAX and Bru server for this process to LTO4.

catDv looks after the catalogue and data Managment, DAX and Bru back off the data to LTO4 (but also Bluray, Sait or vertualy any datatape device supported by Bru can be used).

It very, very easy. Either set catDV worker up to auto archive and it will transcode a proxy and back up the R3d's or you can manualy send data to the LTO from with in catDV.

A Macbook can be used infield to back up media to a standalone LTO4 device if needed.

To retreive, just request the media be be restored from the LTO in the same file path or a new file path and it sorts it for you. Also if you send a FCP sequence to catDV it will restore the sequence for you from the master media on LTO4.

The whole system works far better than FCP server for SAN management.

I have no commercial involvement in this just think its a brilliant system.

Any one want to know more PM me.

Dave
UK
 
:umm: Recently there was a BBC RED moco shoot where they shot all day and no pictures at the end. This was a straight finger problem and nothing to do with the camera. The producer [I hear] pulled the kit from all over the place to get the price down [sound familier] and thought nix about work flow, which is almost the most important thing. So now who pays? well bad mouthing and double finger pointing has probably resulted in a huge dent in Red affirmation. I dont suppose they will speak of the huge RED Drama that they are in coproduction with, becos its not in-house. The problem in these days of BBC life is that too many departments have too big a say and rumour is the byeword for decisions. Also not much is known by many producers who simply are very new and have little experience being just one up from being a freelance secretary.:sad:
By the way this was originally sheduled for 35mm and was overiden by the same person who is now up a financial gum tree!!
 
- the BBC's a big place and there are still plenty of pockets of pragmatism and technical literacy around. We're about to deliver material as ProResHQ because it will be a more practical option in the field than AVC-I; a sensible solution approved by an intelligent and technically literate producer. Suggest Fauna doesn't give up on the BBC but finds work in a more enlightened department.
 
Tony Covell said:
:umm: Recently there was a BBC RED moco shoot where they shot all day and no pictures at the end. This was a straight finger problem and nothing to do with the camera.
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How the heck can you shoot all day and not end up with any footage?
It makes no sense, unless someone accidentally wiped a drive.
Who doesn't playback their shots, at some point on set, to make sure they got them?
 
thanks for all your valuable input...
I am still waiting on the information to see what happened in this particular case.
thanks
ƒ
 
BBC4 & BBC HD 9pm Sunday 26th October

BBC4 & BBC HD 9pm Sunday 26th October

In Love with Barbara is a drama shot on Red cameras provided by Kinetic Cameras & ICE Films. It is a biopic of the famous romance novelist Barbara Cartland and is set in the 20's, 30's and 70's. It was shot by Tony Miller and was a hassle free happy shoot. It will be shown on BBC4 and BBC HD on Sunday 26th October at 9pm. it is a critics choice in the Radio Times.

NICK ALLSOP
RED TECH
KINETIC CAMERAS
 
Ha! I lived just down the road from the Cartland estate, she was nuttier than squirrel poo.

All the fences around the property are painted powder puff blue.
Shame she's gone, not many characters like her around these days.

KineticPictures said:
In Love with Barbara is a drama shot on Red cameras provided by Kinetic Cameras & ICE Films. It is a biopic of the famous romance novelist Barbara Cartland and is set in the 20's, 30's and 70's. It was shot by Tony Miller and was a hassle free happy shoot. It will be shown on BBC4 and BBC HD on Sunday 26th October at 9pm. it is a critics choice in the Radio Times.

NICK ALLSOP
RED TECH
KINETIC CAMERAS
Click to expand...
 
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