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Battle against flicker/rolling shutter

Antonio Ribeiro

Antonio Ribeiro

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Hi folks,

Seeking a bit of advice here. I've been asked to go and trouble-shoot on a feature shot in West Africa. The film was originally shot on a combination of F900 and RED1. Quite a few scenes (Interiors) have an incredibly bad flicker/rolling-shutter problem. I 've been asked to re-shoot some of these scenes where this has happened still using the RED as I believe this has little to do with the camera. Magnetic ballasts can be to blame I heard. On the other hand, what would be really helpful is to have a quick way to just change settings in the camera to fix this, so we are not conditioned to having to use a given type of lights.

The way I have in mind to do this is to change shutter speed. Any other suggestions which work a treat with the Scarlet X/Red1?

Also, is there a magic formula/plug-in to remove these in post?

Thanks,

Antonio
 
Flickering can be eliminated by adjusting the shutter speed, but for rolling shutter there is not much you can do in camera. You have to do it in post.
There is a RS-plugin for Nuke(X)
http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/rollingshutter/

Can't help you any further, i'm still waiting for my Scarlet. ;)
 
Last edited:
Maik Müller Menendez said:
Flickering can be eliminated by adjusting the shutter speed, but for rolling shutter there is not much you can do in camera. You have to do it in post.
There is a RS-plugin for Nuke(X)
http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/rollingshutter/

Can't help you any further, i'm still waiting for my Scarlet. ;)
Click to expand...


Hey Malk,

I think we're all waiting for our Scarlets!... Thanks very much for your reply. I will check out the plug-in.

All the best
Antonio
 
Pretty much all of the flickering lights I have seen all over the world were caused by shooting a frame rate
that was not 'intended' for that particular country (i.e. shooting 25p in a country with 60hz power) and not compensating by adjusting the
shutter speed.
 
Antonio Ribeiro said:
Hi folks,

Seeking a bit of advice here. I've been asked to go and trouble-shoot on a feature shot in West Africa. The film was originally shot on a combination of F900 and RED1. Quite a few scenes (Interiors) have an incredibly bad flicker/rolling-shutter problem. I 've been asked to re-shoot some of these scenes where this has happened still using the RED as I believe this has little to do with the camera. Magnetic ballasts can be to blame I heard. On the other hand, what would be really helpful is to have a quick way to just change settings in the camera to fix this, so we are not conditioned to having to use a given type of lights.

The way I have in mind to do this is to change shutter speed. Any other suggestions which work a treat with the Scarlet X/Red1?

Also, is there a magic formula/plug-in to remove these in post?

Thanks,

Antonio
Click to expand...
Power Source - I am from Africa and have shot in many 3rd world places. Unstable power sources will keep rolling even if you adjust the shutter. There is no 'syncing' with an unstable power source. Also most of Africa is at 50hz. Check your settings in camera. Much of electrical wiring has no code. Cable runs and gauge of wire are normally whatever works so voltage drop is always a factor. Dirty diesel in generators have been the cause too in the past for me. Have you shot anything available light? That should be an indicator if the camera is the problem instead of power supply. enjoy the adventure.
 
Isn't the combination of the MX sensor and the new electronics in Epic/Scarlet going to reduce the 'rolling shutter' quite a bit from the older Red1?

The data is pulled from the sensor faster, and the time lag between different parts of the sensor is what 'rolling shutter' is all about.

It was my understanding that this wasn't really an issue now (when moving the camera normally, not wildly swinging it)?
 
Kiel Milligan said:
I wanna do whip pans.
Click to expand...

Ha Ha! If you go fast enough, they won't even notice the rolling shutter!

But - on a more serious note, I believe the data is pulled off the sensor faster with the Epic.

However, is the data pulled off the sensor at the same rate for the Scarlet as the Epic?

It's a bit important to me as rolling shutter will throw off calculations by SynthEyes and other tracking software.
 
Even if the Epic/Scarlet are better than the R1, RS can still be a problem for heavy VFX with 3D camera tracking. You may need a CCD camera for some of those shots.

Definitely try the tracking before you wrap shooting!
 
Maik Müller Menendez said:
Flickering can be eliminated by adjusting the shutter speed, but for rolling shutter there is not much you can do in camera. You have to do it in post.
There is a RS-plugin for Nuke(X)
http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/rollingshutter/
Click to expand...

Be warned: using such a plugin is going to be a LOT of work on par with doing a 2D-3D conversion, particularly if you have subjects moving in opposing directions. You'll have to separately matte each moving object and by the time you're done you'll wonder why you didn't just try more reshoot options.
 
Antonio Ribeiro said:
The film was originally shot on a combination of F900 and RED1. Quite a few scenes (Interiors) have an incredibly bad flicker/rolling-shutter problem... Also, is there a magic formula/plug-in to remove these in post?
Click to expand...
Yes, Lowry/Reliance in Burbank, California has dealt with this. It's not cheap, but it's very effective. I would contact them and ask for a test, maybe of 10-20 seconds of picture before and after, and come up with a rate that you can work with:

Lowry Digital/Reliance Mediaworks
2777 Ontario Street
Burbank, CA 91504
(818) 557-7333
http://www.reliancemediaworks.com/flim restoretion image replacement.aspx

I can think of many digitally-shot features in the last four or five years that used Lowry to solve a myriad of problems and fix problematic images, from a variety of cameras (not just Red).
 
axel ebermann said:
Pretty much all of the flickering lights I have seen all over the world were caused by shooting a frame rate
that was not 'intended' for that particular country (i.e. shooting 25p in a country with 60hz power) and not compensating by adjusting the
shutter speed.
Click to expand...

Like Axel said, you have to shoot 30p in 60hz countries and do some magic in post to get that filmic look, but I think it's worth it, flicker will be tough to be removed. Also LED lights powered by batteries is a good solution. You'll need a lot of LED panels though.
 
Alwyn Kumst said:
Power Source - I am from Africa and have shot in many 3rd world places. Unstable power sources will keep rolling even if you adjust the shutter. There is no 'syncing' with an unstable power source. Also most of Africa is at 50hz. Check your settings in camera. Much of electrical wiring has no code. Cable runs and gauge of wire are normally whatever works so voltage drop is always a factor. Dirty diesel in generators have been the cause too in the past for me. Have you shot anything available light? That should be an indicator if the camera is the problem instead of power supply. enjoy the adventure.
Click to expand...


Hi Alwyn,

Thanks for sharing your experience. I know I will be shooting in Nigeria (this will happen in a month or so). But what you said gives me a good indicator of what to expect. And picking on Axel's comment, I think the trick may very well be to be just keep check of the shutter speed.

Thanks,
Antonio
 
Felipe Leite said:
Like Axel said, you have to shoot 30p in 60hz countries and do some magic in post to get that filmic look, but I think it's worth it, flicker will be tough to be removed. Also LED lights powered by batteries is a good solution. You'll need a lot of LED panels though.
Click to expand...

Afraid so. One of the locations is a large church so It's gotta be the HMI route.
 
Antonio Ribeiro said:
Afraid so. One of the locations is a large church so It's gotta be the HMI route.
Click to expand...

Yeah, then you'll have to play with the shutter speed or the fps or both. If you want to be sure, better do both. Cheers.
 
Be careful handholding. These camera get terrible wobble that is noticeably on 50mm and above without a shoulder rig
 
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