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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Banding and artefacts on YOUTUBE

Paul, what I meant by that is that an Ipad display for example hides most of the artifacts, because it isn't high quality and doesn't have the detail like a proper monitor. Doesn't matter. The banding is there, even if some displays won't show it as heavy as it is.

I will try using Prores for the upload on YouTube. What is strange, that today I had to render a PAL SD Version and even with an uncompressed AVI the banding showed up again. But the uncompressed Master, that I used for the render doesn't have any.
 
Kim Frank said:
Paul, what I meant by that is that an Ipad display for example hides most of the artifacts, because it isn't high quality and doesn't have the detail like a proper monitor. Doesn't matter. The banding is there, even if some displays won't show it as heavy as it is.

I will try using Prores for the upload on YouTube. What is strange, that today I had to render a PAL SD Version and even with an uncompressed AVI the banding showed up again. But the uncompressed Master, that I used for the render doesn't have any.
Click to expand...

The ProRes upload to Youtube is an awesome solution (the one that's worked best for me). If you can't make pro-res quicktimes, find out what other lossless codecs Youtube accepts (DNX, ANIMATION, etc).

Worst case make your QUICKTIME with x264 (not H264) and crank the bit rates to like 10,000 or 20,000. That should get you in the ballpark of where you want to be.
 
Kim Frank said:
Paul, what I meant by that is that an Ipad display for example hides most of the artifacts, because it isn't high quality and doesn't have the detail like a proper monitor. Doesn't matter. The banding is there, even if some displays won't show it as heavy as it is.

I will try using Prores for the upload on YouTube. What is strange, that today I had to render a PAL SD Version and even with an uncompressed AVI the banding showed up again. But the uncompressed Master, that I used for the render doesn't have any.
Click to expand...

...you mean the retina display that has more resolution than your dell?
 
Paul, I really don't get your point here. The banding is there and I'm trying to get rid of it.

I'm very thankful for all the tips.

(written on my Ipad MINI)
 
Kim Frank said:
Paul, I really don't get your point here. The banding is there and I'm trying to get rid of it.

I'm very thankful for all the tips.

(written on my Ipad MINI)
Click to expand...

banding happens when you have a gradient in a low noise area. A properly exposed sky with a vingnette applied is a recipie for banding.

The only way to fix it is to add noise, or a dithering pattern to the troubled areas. Sending different codecs to youtube will not matter unless there is some pre-processing going on at the youtube side that dithers intelligently for you when it has a 10-bit source.

Take a look at this example images of the cat to see what dithering can do for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dither#Examples

The reason why you don't see banding in your source footage is because the source has a higher bitdepth and chroma range.

All video gets knocked down to 4:2:0 for any consumer application so you need to make sure it looks good at 4:2:0 before it touches the encoder or it will just pass along all the artifacts that may pop up due to throwing away chroma and luminance data.
 
I use ffmbc to convert to ProRes, and Handbrake to convert to H264 (Handbrake uses x264). Handbrake does a million times better job than the Main Concept encoder that Adobe ships. I could never get it to look visually lossless even jacking the bitrate to extreme levels. Handbrake on the other hand has given me excellent results. In Handbrake a quality setting from around 5-10 seems to be pretty much visually lossless (lower numbers mean higher quality and bigger files).
 
Gabe,

Banding will still occur when it goes from a 4:4:4 to a 4:2:0 subsampling unless you have noise or dithering in your gradient areas. The encoder can't make your chroma suddenly not band when it's a chroma resolution issue, not a bitrate issue.
 
Alexander Mejia said:
Gabe,

Banding will still occur when it goes from a 4:4:4 to a 4:2:0 subsampling unless you have noise or dithering in your gradient areas. The encoder can't make your chroma suddenly not band when it's a chroma resolution issue, not a bitrate issue.
Click to expand...

I know, but the Main Concept encoder would always destroy any dithering and noise I left/added in the video, even if I gave it plenty of bitrate to encode that noise.
 
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