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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Baking the best ProRes 4444 you can

Tehben Dean

Tehben Dean

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If using ProRes 4444 for your entire workflow, what is the best way to get the most out of the image (saving the most data before transcoding) to prep for grading in color?

Which color and gamma space and what if any one-light adjustments should be made before you bake the ProRes?

Thanks,
Tehben
 
Transferring with a redlog gamma will preserve your 12bit linear source image in the 10bit ProRes file but there isnt a 'one size fits all' approach. It really depends on what you are going to be doing with the image.
 
Emery Wells said:
It really depends on what you are going to be doing with the image.
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Pretty much just trying to save as much information as possible so as to have the greatest amount of options in color.

Which color space? or does it matter?

Thanks,
Tehben
 
If you are working in Apple Color then you might want to consider going back to the R3D files for the finish. There you will get full access to the R3D data and can set the color space in the RED room that will get you the most amount of control and quality form your RED source.

David
 
David Battistella said:
If you are working in Apple Color then you might want to consider going back to the R3D files for the finish. There you will get full access to the R3D data and can set the color space in the RED room that will get you the most amount of control and quality form your RED source.
Click to expand...

That is what I usually do, but I thought for simplicities sake for stuff that is just being finished for the internet etc. it would be faster to just go with ProRes the whole way. I keep hearing people say how often even big budget productions just go with it to save some time... may change my mind after I try it, but figured it would be worth checking it out

Tehben
 
As you are finishing for web or tv working in a Rec 709 gamma makes the same space. Colour Space is up to you, but you'll want to do a one light to your shots to get them in the ball park of the end look you want while protecting highlights - that way the data you are throwing away isn't likely to matter as you are not going to be pushing your image in a particularly extreme way in post.

Absolutely nothing wrong with this if that's how you want to do your workflow, and it's very similiar to ads etc that were shot on film, but then processed and transferred to digibeta, then finished and graded off digibeta.

I think a lot of people get caught up with the idea that because the R3D's give you the best possible range of data you should always do everything possible to get the full range of information out of them. But if you have shot for a look and aren't grading aggressively, you are often going to throw away a lot of the information you preserved anyway (except for some minor subtleties that are only going to matter the guys in the grading suite, not any of the end users).
 
I agree with Craig.

I use ProRes4444 to finish, and I find by getting your clips relatively close, but preserving highlights and shadows, you have plenty of room to grade them directly.

The thing to avoid is just transferring them flat and relying on ProRes to give you enough info in the grade.

You really just want to 'steer' the ProRes, not fundamentally change it.

For anything more, going back to the R3D is preferred.

Having said that, until Color incorporates the new color science, you will probably find your Red Alert transcodes look better anyway...
 
jimhare said:
I agree with Craig.

I use ProRes4444 to finish, and I find by getting your clips relatively close, but preserving highlights and shadows, you have plenty of room to grade them directly.

The thing to avoid is just transferring them flat and relying on ProRes to give you enough info in the grade.

You really just want to 'steer' the ProRes, not fundamentally change it.

For anything more, going back to the R3D is preferred.

Having said that, until Color incorporates the new color science, you will probably find your Red Alert transcodes look better anyway...
Click to expand...
And if you do go this route, if you have just a few shots that you need to go back to RED apps to tweak it's pretty painless to do so. If you've got a good idea of what you want for a first light, do as Jim suggests and get it close but do make sure you leave yourself some wiggle room in your highs and lows or you'll be coming back to originals more than you want to. A few shots, no big deal. A hundred shots, a bigger deal. ProRes 444 is great. A nice format for those who can't quite work in uncompressed and who may also not have the means for working in a Scratch, or other high end, native systems. If I know the grade is going to be heavy, and a lot of flexibility is needed in getting the most out of the image, then an R3D native path is a good way to go.
 
Two things. I belive prores 4x4 is 12 bit and does hold everything the r3d has on it.

I use the prores route because color does not support the new SDK

Generally I bake in the prores close to what I want it to look like but with a brightness setting of 2.5 in redline and rec709. No curve just get the color close.

Cheers
Matt Riggieri
 
If you get a heart operation do you tell the doctor to just sew some of the bloodways back together for times sake or do you say jeez I sure do want the most out of it. Well if you like filming take the same approach :ciappa:
 
HD Hildebrand said:
I've found Prores 4444 to have a gamma shift when brought into FCP. Are others experiencing this?
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I had a similar issue when exporting out of RedRocket 1707, where viewing in QT had a different look then in FCP. This was solved by
- going into the Compression Settings in my QT output from Rocket.
- Going into Setup (beside QT as selected format)
- Selecting None as my Gamma Correction, instead of Automatic

Hope that helps?

Cheers,

Jesse Korosi
 
I can't remember what it is called exactly but in the composition settings I just chech the box that says something like embed QuickTime gamma. Sorry I would have to take a look at it to be exact. This bakes in the correct gamma as metadata and the exported AE clips look the same in every App.
 
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