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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Backup and Tape device answers

Gone Intel with no success....

Gone Intel with no success....

So, I've now replaced the HP scsi LTO4 drive with a new one.

Bought an ATTO ul5d card and put it into a MacPro.
Thinking this would improve speeds.
Run the Bru speedtest, and still no bellcurve. It bottoms out at 35mb/s.
Test was One quicktime movie being backed up from an 8 drive SATA raid. HPT card.

Has anyone got faster speeds than this using scsi / HP/ macpro combo?

Surely we should be getting faster than this?

Any ideas what we might be doing wrong?

Cheers

M
 
Hey guys, we were planning on getting the HP EH920SB with the ATTO ExpressSAS H380 board to run it. However a few unexpected expenses as well as a price rise might have compromise this and we're now looking at getting an LTO-3 unit for the time being.

What would be something equivalent to this combo in the LTO-3 world?
 
Depends on the file data type and file size

Depends on the file data type and file size

marcus lyall said:
So, I've now replaced the HP scsi LTO4 drive with a new one.

Bought an ATTO ul5d card and put it into a MacPro.
Thinking this would improve speeds.
Run the Bru speedtest, and still no bellcurve. It bottoms out at 35mb/s.
Test was One quicktime movie being backed up from an 8 drive SATA raid. HPT card.

Has anyone got faster speeds than this using scsi / HP/ macpro combo?

Surely we should be getting faster than this?

Any ideas what we might be doing wrong?
Click to expand...
Hi Marcus,

What's the data type you're using for the test? For example, if you're reading GB-sized media files, you should definitely getting better throughput than that. However, if you're using email files, that number would be expected as BRU is spending most of its time requesting the next file.

From a backup of some MP3 files on my Mac Pro to the HP LTO-4:
Code: 
bru -cvvvvvvvvvf ntape0 -b 2048k Music/iTunes/filler/The*
...
bru: [I181] wrote 2143232 blocks (4286464 KBytes) on volume [1], 0:00:46, 93184 KB/sec

And that is from the internal SATA drive. However, a similar backup of my home folder resulted in 38MB/sec as I've got over 2GB of email archived there.
 
Dominique Grenier said:
Hey guys, we were planning on getting the HP EH920SB with the ATTO ExpressSAS H380 board to run it. However a few unexpected expenses as well as a price rise might have compromise this and we're now looking at getting an LTO-3 unit for the time being.

What would be something equivalent to this combo in the LTO-3 world?
Click to expand...

Hi Dominique,

The SAS version of HP's LTO-3 is:

EH848A HP StorageWorks LTO-3 Ultrium 920 SAS External Tape Drive​

More info is here:


It will work fine with the ATTO SAS HBA.

Tim
 
LTO4 for macbookpro

LTO4 for macbookpro

Hello,
as many have mentioned this is a great thread. :matrix:
Maybe I am overlooked this answer - but my question is
what setup would I need for my macbook pro assuming that I want to get the HP StorageWorks LTO-4 Ultrium 1840 Tape Drive and
Bru-PE

is there an ATTO SAS card for my notebook? or what card and cable would you all suggest?

For onset (on location(s)) backup for later LTO archival: what would anyone recommend to hook up to my macbookpro again (leopard, 2.5ghz intel core duo, 4gb ram) - I guess onset LTO backup is too slow and impractical.

lastly Bru said something about Fujifilm media and I have read some stuff suggesting HP media... any comments? :shiftyph34r:

Sorry if this was covered and I missed it. :help:
Thanks again for this great info. :nerd:
Bryan

ps - does anyone have specific information on film bond data backup requirements?
 
Notebooks and laptops ... not at this time

Notebooks and laptops ... not at this time

Bryan Cloninger said:
Hello,
as many have mentioned this is a great thread. :matrix:
Maybe I am overlooked this answer - but my question is
what setup would I need for my macbook pro assuming that I want to get the HP StorageWorks LTO-4 Ultrium 1840 Tape Drive and
Bru-PE

is there an ATTO SAS card for my notebook? or what card and cable would you all suggest?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, there's no type of notebook/laptop interface for SAS on a laptop. There are a couple of eSATA cards, but they won't work with SAS devices (even though SAS and SATA are usually combined). For now, your only option is a USB DAT drive from HP (DAT160 = 80GB/tape), but be aware that we're talking 6MB/sec.

Here's a table of performance numbers that we've seen (versus manufacturer's claims):


For onset (on location(s)) backup for later LTO archival: what would anyone recommend to hook up to my macbookpro again (leopard, 2.5ghz intel core duo, 4gb ram) - I guess onset LTO backup is too slow and impractical.
Click to expand...
Maybe a Firewire disk that could then be archived to the LTO at the studio?

lastly Bru said something about Fujifilm media and I have read some stuff suggesting HP media... any comments? :shiftyph34r:
Click to expand...
Actually, we mention Fujifilm as one option - all of the vendors provide high quality media - and most of that is either private labeled Fuji or Maxell. The only brand we recommend to be careful of is Verbatim.

ps - does anyone have specific information on film bond data backup requirements?
Click to expand...
I'd also love to hear any comments on this. The only requirement that I've heard anyone mention is two copies of the data with at least one being on tape.

Tim
 
Tim, I apologize if this has been answered in this thread already.

But what is the current cheapest way for me to get into an LTO-3 external deck? Total cost of deck, any controller card needed and cable. I don't really care about speed of writing to this deck (could offload overnight).

I'm on a 2008 Mac Pro tower
 
LTO-3 Cost of entry

LTO-3 Cost of entry

Shawn Nelson said:
Tim, I apologize if this has been answered in this thread already.

But what is the current cheapest way for me to get into an LTO-3 external deck? Total cost of deck, any controller card needed and cable. I don't really care about speed of writing to this deck (could offload overnight).

I'm on a 2008 Mac Pro tower
Click to expand...
Your least expensive route would be the ATTO Tech SCSI UL5 or SAS H308 and either the HP SCSI or HP SAS version of that drive.

Both kits should cost the same as the drives and cards are the same price regardless of SAS or SCSI. While you could save US$200 or so for the Quantum drive, you should ask yourself if the potential customer service issues are worth the savings up front since Quantum tends to treat Mac customers as third class citizens :sad: .

In US pricing, the total should run around $425 + $1,950 + $29 depending on where you purchase.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
I should have posted my current research on the matter:

At NewEgg,
$1619 Quantem
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16840113159&Tpk=LTO-3

Needs an Ultra 160 SCSI, not sure whats a good card for the Mac to connect to this
Click to expand...

If you're okay with the possible customer service issues, the Quantum LTO-3 with the ATTO UL5D is a good combo. If you do require Quantum's support at any time, be prepared to have a Windows system handy to test on (this might be a good reason to build a 15GB Windows XP Bootcamp partition on your Mac Pro).

Otherwise, the combo of the ATTO ExpressSCSI UL5D (only card available for Mac Pro) and the Quantum LTO-3 LVD-SCSI drive will be a good pairing that works perfectly with BRU PE. Be aware that you'll need a VHDCI to MD68M cable as the ATTO HBA uses the little connector.
 
ATTO Only for Mac Pro...

ATTO Only for Mac Pro...

Shawn Nelson said:
Thanks Tim! I appreciate it.

Again at NewEgg,
HP SAS AG738A, $1998
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16840108047

Provangtage has that H308 for $286. Sheesh, seems expensive. Why couldnt these LTO drives just use eSata? Those cards are cheap!

What about this from Provantage, the HP SAS AG738A drive bundled with a ULT920 card for just $1772
http://www.provantage.com/hewlett-packard-hp-ag738a~7HEWS3KA.htm
Click to expand...

SAS is 3Gb/sec, SATA II is 300Mb/sec. Actually, $286 for the H308 is a great price (we paid $500 for ours originally...). Unfortunately, the HBA bundled with the HP drives is not Mac compatible.

The key is that only the ATTO HBA's (SCSI and SAS) work in the Mac Pro with no issues. While the generic LSI that's been mentioned in the thread will work, it does require some very special setup and you have to re-flash it on a Windows system.

Tim
 
hey tim. on average, how long would you say it takes you to lay down each 100GB onto an LTO4 tape. assume you are using the HP LTO4 deck, the ATTO card, and coming off an external drive plugged in via esata.

Also, can you recommend a good 2-bay LTO4 drive to work with a mac pro?
 
LTO-4 is F A S T!

LTO-4 is F A S T!

Chris Parker said:
hey tim. on average, how long would you say it takes you to lay down each 100GB onto an LTO4 tape. assume you are using the HP LTO4 deck, the ATTO card, and coming off an external drive plugged in via esata.
Click to expand...
You'll easily see 90 to 100MB/s under that situation, so you're looking at around 20 minutes.

Also, can you recommend a good 2-bay LTO4 drive to work with a mac pro?
Click to expand...

HP has just such a solution :weight_lift: :

Unfortunately, it's currently special order, but you can get it with 2 LTO-4 SAS drives.

Tim
 
Chris Parker said:
also tim, you should rep atto and HP and sell a complete bundle. If you had good prices on a working system, i would buy from you. what with all your tech support and stuff....
Click to expand...

Thanks, Chris. We're working on just such a scenario. Can't share more yet, but we're working it...

Tim
 
Tim Jones said:
Thanks, Chris. We're working on just such a scenario. Can't share more yet, but we're working it...

Tim
Click to expand...

I spent an hour reading this thread and have to say my head is spinning...
so many choices and figuring out is like an algorithmic mindf&$K

if this, then that, but if x is y, then definitely not Q... otherwise, wherein
z equals pi squared, dont buy quantum... unless you own PC, then its OK, or if you dont care, that they hate mac solution then this works, and you can jank it on a PC...

pardon me but WTF?

How about the simple scenario wherein we pick two.

out of fast, good and cheap

1. PC suggestion set up (good and cheap) = not fast (dont care)

2. MAC suggestion set up. (fast and good) = not cheap - need fast.

thanks...
 
simple working archive solution - OSX based

simple working archive solution - OSX based

Tim Whitcomb said:
I spent an hour reading this thread and have to say my head is spinning...
so many choices and figuring out is like an algorithmic mindf&$K

if this, then that, but if x is y, then definitely not Q... otherwise, wherein
z equals pi squared, dont buy quantum... unless you own PC, then its OK, or if you dont care, that they hate mac solution then this works, and you can jank it on a PC...

pardon me but WTF?

How about the simple scenario wherein we pick two.

out of fast, good and cheap

1. PC suggestion set up (good and cheap) = not fast (dont care)

2. MAC suggestion set up. (fast and good) = not cheap - need fast.

thanks...
Click to expand...

(1) first off - for windah's set up there are tonnes of solutions out there - see your favourite I.T. storage company for those. I cant help you with that.

(2) - FOR standalone MACOSX archive solution.
Heres is the simple solution that works for Ultrium LTO4 SAS tape drive that works with a MAC PRO using MAC OSX based (hosted) archive applications on OSX 10.5.6 an also work on the brand new MAC PRO 2009 2.93 OCTO (16 x Virt/core jobbie - thats this one I'm using right now). No need to sweat it .. this works and is used by most:

  • ATTOTECH EXPRESSAS HBAs PCIE - R380 or the H380 (external SFF-8088 multi-lane SAS connectors
  • HP desktop external Ultrium LTO4 tape drives either the Full Height HP1840 of their Half Height 1760
  • TolisGroups BRU-PE (Producers Edition) - MACOSX BASED archive software
  • some Ultrium LTO4 data tapes (HP or SONY are great)
  • an SFF-8088-to-SFF-8088 multilane sas cable (maybe you can get one with the tape drive).

This absolutely works for archiving creative/post work.

Thats as simple as it gets and works 100%.

I have exactly this configuration and BOTH of these tape drives and they work fine on my old 2007 MAC PRO 8core and now n this new monster 2009 2.93Ghx 8 x core Nehalen with the R380 EXPRESSSAS in PCIE slot 2 (x16).

THere is a great deal of inforation on these threads> PLease revew and draw your conclusion. Simply the support of other component vendors for MACOSX is NOT THERE. (i.e Quantum and LSILOGIC).

Looking in these threads will get opinions on other solutions that work and the differences in teh tape drives and maybe the software.

Skip the rest if you like...

I also have a QUANTUM HH SAS LTO4 ULtrium tape drive. I'm ready to dump in the local landfill. I Had to buy an LSI SAS3442E-R PCI SAS HBA card (windows support only) to get it to work on OSX. (Stupid me!).. so dont go this route.

See these links. More if you search other forums.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21284
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24522
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17496
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7556 (very long and detailed thread)
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23545
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=155693
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=114778

NO need to sweat. Maybe you can see this solution at NAB somewhere.

if you are a non OSX platform user then there a lots more options for windahs's and linux using tried and true I.T. backup solutions for tape drives..

If you are on a budget and dont trust your archives to cheap spinning disks or scatchable optical disks then you might want look at the line of HP DAT tape drives. These work with USB and SATA(??) not sure of the later.. and you can run on other machines that dont need an HBA.

THere are SCSI an Fibre Channel versions of the tape drives requiring difference (obviously) HBA's..

I mention the above configuration because it is cost effective and works wonderfully.

LAstly there are also CLIENT SERVER verison of TOLISGROUPS BRU and also other I.T. based and expensive archive and backup solutions that supports mostly all OS platforms.. plenty form which to pick and choose.

HTH

w
 
MAC and PC solution

MAC and PC solution

Hello,
So no notebook eh... ok plan B

HP desktop external Ultrium LTO4 tape drives either the Full Height HP1840 of their Half Height 1760

What is the difference between these two ? besides the size... :blink:

Does Bru-PE work on XP?

Can I run an LTO on my XP partition (bootcamp) on my macbook?

Lastly but not leastly, What is the best to hook up the above hp LTO4 to the PC - card and cable (and software if the bru-pe does not work on xp)

sorry for the questions - I am trying to set up something I can access on my PC and then later when I have a mac tower I can switch. (I am transitioning to mac - fed up with my pc and love my macbookpro - but meanwhile I have a lot of pc gear)
 
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