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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Avid workflow with red camera

DC71 said:
Heres a way to cut RED files in Avid then make an image sequence:

Input Red files into Avid using Metacheater to get timecode

Edit
Delete all timewarps (else it has an error on export??)
Export OMF2

Input into FCP using Automatic Duck
Ensure sequence settings same as Red proxy
Reconnect all media, locate Red proxies

Export XML

Use Crimson to make Intermediates and a Telecine XML

In RedCine Load Intermediates, then load Telecine XML

Export from Redcine as image seq or what suits you best
Click to expand...

I was assuming this was the current workflow, but I didn't know about the timewarp issue. Doesn't this have to be corrected prior to generating the XLM for Redcine? Do you have to manual re-apply all of the timewarps in the FCP timeline one at a time?

Also, why is it even necessary to reconnect back to the Red proxies if you're just moving metadata around? Is it just to double check the edit and make sure everything came across properly in the OMF2 to FCP timeline conversion?

Thanks,
Paul
 
Mc 3.0.1

Mc 3.0.1

A quick note to Prosckes (you may already know it):

MC 3.0.1 is out, and it supports 10.4.11. The DNA problem is caused by a 10.5.3 FW driver problem, so 3.0.1 used with 10.4.11 should work fine.

Unless you need to purchase a new system... The newest (Harpertown) Mac Pros don´t support 10.4.x; if you want a Mojo/Adrenaline compatible system, you just have to wait until somebody at Avid or Apple fixes the driver problem.

Best regards

Lars
 
Hi I have recently completed two successful Red jobs using Crimson that were cut on FCP and onlined in Autodesk Smoke and had no problems. I used the Redline feature in Crimson to output DPX with handles rather than Redcine as when I pulled in XML into Redcine the timecodes did not match the footage although the footage was correct it changed the timecodes? I have followed the correct procedure and use the intermediates in Redcine but still no go. Not sure what is going on here, but all was fine using redline feature in Crimson so I have stuck with that.

I have now got a project that has been edited on Avid MC2.8 on a PC and I am having great difficulty conforming the footage in Smoke. I have followed one suggested workflow which is:

Convert QT's to Avid Format we chose DVPAL as offlining at PAL to save on space.
Used Metacheater to get ALE with T/C etc.
Pulled into Avid cut as normal and create EDL.
Pulled EDL into FCP, reconnect media export XML.
Crimson Export DPX using Redline (as previously discussed due to problems with Redcne).
Conform DPX using original EDL.


The problem is occuring when I am coming to convert the footage for online. When doing this I am finding that certain shots are missed out and that the timecodes for the in and outs is altered so when I come to conform not all the footage has exported or it is the wrong footage. I do have speed changes so I can understand some of them and realize I have to to alter them accordingly in FCP but it is also on normal speed shots as well. Also I have noticed when the EDL is pulled into FCP mulitple edits using the same source seem to cock up and it has to create a new clip for each edit rather than have the edits refer to the one original source. Also with some of the dissolves the footage is completely wrong.

At the moment it is looking like I will have to export each cut as a full take which is going to increase my workload and take up valuable storgae for stuff I am not going to need any help or advice to get a Pull list that I can then use to convert my edit only would be extremely helpful.
 
When creating EDL from EDL Manager, are you using the START or the TC24 values? Was the original frame rate 24 or 25? Just want to make sure you are not seeing a cross frame rate issue first since you offlined in SD.

Michael
 
MichaelP said:
When creating EDL from EDL Manager, are you using the START or the TC24 values? Was the original frame rate 24 or 25? Just want to make sure you are not seeing a cross frame rate issue first since you offlined in SD.

Michael
Click to expand...

Not sure as I did not make the EDL the DVPAL quicktimes converted to cut to were 25fps, I will have to check the fps of the r3d I believe some was shot at 100fps although I did notice in Redcine the fps showing up as 24.
 
If you could backtrack some of the frame rate issues, we can find out where it failed in the process. The main question is what was the intended frame rate of the program? The 100fps was for slomo to be played back at ...fps?

Michael
 
MichaelP said:
If you could backtrack some of the frame rate issues, we can find out where it failed in the process. The main question is what was the intended frame rate of the program? The 100fps was for slomo to be played back at ...fps?

Michael
Click to expand...


The project is intended to be all played back at 25fps and was edited in a 25fps project and timeline. I know they have done some speed ramping in avid as well so that will be part of my problem. I will check with the editor on Monday as I am only involved in the online. One thing your previous post has made me think of is that the original proxies supplied by the camera company maybe at 24fps. I used these to make the DVPAL QT's for Avid as we could not get Redcine to do it from the r3d files without crashing all the time and Redline in Crimson does not do DVPAL. So I used batch export in FCP to convert all the original r3d proxie QT's to DVPAL. I am wondering if the original T/C is 24fps and it has carried that over rather than changing it as it would in Redcine. Meaning although I have a DVPAL QT playing at 25fps the timecode metadata may well be 24fps. Again I will check on Monday as not in the office until then.
 
MichaelP said:
The pull list will be out in a couple weeks - (mid-July). We are working out the final whitepaper and is going under review and final QA testing. This will have the pull list from Avid back to RedCine for all shots used. Shortly we will update those to have cuts + handles with optimization.

Michael
Click to expand...

Is there a possibility that Avid will support Red files directly at any stage?
 
Also I am getting confused about what I should be exporting if using Redcine. H I was under the impression that you choose the fps of the project you want to edit, but after checking up some more due to the problems I am having I seem to be getting conflicting views that you export your footage at the source fps. If the later is true then maybe this is also part of my problem and the reason they have used speed ramps. As I know they did shoot at 100fps not sure if it is all of the material so will check. So if they shot at 100fps but we are ediitng and delivering a 25fps program so I export the Qt's for editing at 25fps and the final dpx for online at 25fps or at the original 100fps.
 
jtm said:
Is there a possibility that Avid will support Red files directly at any stage?
Click to expand...

Once the SDK is out we can evaluate the time it will take for the various applications to support. Until that time, we cannot say.

Michael
 
There has been some threads here about RedCine still showing 24fps in the metadata even though footage was shot at 25fps - that will affect the timecode. It would also be interesting to see if FCP did a proper timecode conversion as well form 24 to 25.

Media Composer can track both timecode rates as well as do a conversion if needed depending on how the conversion is done in the host application. But if this was not observed at any of the steps along the way, then that would explain the issues.

All DPX output should be done at the final program rate to match the proxies that were created. I need to do some tests on high speed material to see what happens to timecode since SMPTE only handles 24, 25, and 29.97/30 currently.


Michael
 
Hi Michael,

I have looked at the original Proxie QT's created by the camera company and they are 25fps so all is well with my converted QT's for Avid matching up. So not sure what is going on. I think I might have to bite the bullet and purchase Auomatic Duck to get us around the Avid to FCP conversion as the edl route seems not to work as too many things are getting lost in the translation. Or I am just going to have to get the editor to re do the EDL with no speed ramps and then export whole takes although this will give me anhours worth of footage to online a 5min project.

Simon
 
Can you send me the bin with the 5 minute seqeunce? See your PM.

Michael
 
Ok will do, we have managed a work around be getting the editor to take all fx off the edl and he has pretty much changed it to be just source footage and this has worked do we are going this route. Will be interesting to find out any answers as to why it does not work properly with the original EDL.

Just found another problem with Crimson it seems to be misreading the metadata from the r3d files and is changing all the colour settings such as Kelvin to 50000. I have checked them in Redcine and they are only 4000k. Not sure what is up with it so swapped back to Redcine to do the export.
 
DS Nitris

DS Nitris

MichaelP said:
There has been some threads here about RedCine still showing 24fps in the metadata even though footage was shot at 25fps - that will affect the timecode. It would also be interesting to see if FCP did a proper timecode conversion as well form 24 to 25.

Media Composer can track both timecode rates as well as do a conversion if needed depending on how the conversion is done in the host application. But if this was not observed at any of the steps along the way, then that would explain the issues.

All DPX output should be done at the final program rate to match the proxies that were created. I need to do some tests on high speed material to see what happens to timecode since SMPTE only handles 24, 25, and 29.97/30 currently.

Michael
Click to expand...

Hi Michael


Will you be offering the same Media Composer features in DS Nitris ie; will DS users have the same features available to them soon?

Thanks
 
We are waiting on the SDK to have DS use that directly rather than a proxy.

Michael
 
MichaelP said:
The XML export is from Avid FilmScribe which can open bins from Meridian, and Adrenaline versions 1.x through latest release of v3. As of now, the XML to ALE are for HD workflows unless working at 25fps which is good for PAL and HD. 24fps in a NTSC based world needs to be HD for now. We will work on XML to ALE for NTSC which needs to do some timecode massaging and column reassignment.

Michael
Click to expand...

Bit scared now. Please help.

The original footage was shot at 23.976, all proxys and ALEs were kept in 23.976.
Due to lack of storage we decided to work in an SD project. A 23.976 NTSC SD project came up with big problems in playback. So we re-imported everything to a 24p NTSC project with a play back rate of 23.976.
Will I be able to make correct XML right through FilmScribe?
When I export an EDL and try to import into Final Cut for later XML conversion, it only accepts it in an 29.97 frame rate.
Have we set up the Avid project wrong or is the problem on the Final Cut side?
Will getting an update to 3.0 solve all my problems?

All help very appreciated!

kerstin
 
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