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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Avid to Color - step by step

Hi guys, this is my first look into this Red workflow (Offline to Avid - Online to Color - and out). Project shot RED 4k 16:9 23.976

From what is described in this forum thread and on Christian's screencast seems easy as cake!

I have no issues getting the red dnx36 files into Avid MC5 (generated from Redcine). Relink works like a charm.

The trouble I am having is sending to Color. I output a seemingly proper EDL with camroll using clip names in comments.

Import EDL in Color, set proper frame rate, size etc. point to root and...

Nothing relinks and the ''shot name'' tab does not list the proper Red file name (only 001, 002, 003, etc.)

Is there an issue regarding my edl list? What am I missing to properly send an edl that Color recognizes?

here's an sample of my edl

FCM: NON-DROP FRAME
001 A021_C00 AA/V C 03:46:56:01 03:47:01:04 01:00:00:00 01:00:05:03
AUD 3
* FROM CLIP NAME: A021_C002_0326UQ
002 A021_C00 AA/V C 03:41:05:02 03:41:07:19 01:00:05:03 01:00:07:20
AUD 3
* FROM CLIP NAME: A021_C001_0326GN
 
I think Color expects the source to look like an 8 character truncation of the full 16:

A001C001

then the full file name is a comment
*A001_C001_0103QZ

Michael
 
Michael,

We have a project that started in MC5 via AMA, transcode to DNX36 & offlined. We have relinked the locked sequence to the AMA'd R3D's and exported the RED_16 edl, but no luck when we import it in Color. Is there a setting in EDL manager to optimize the EDL's source to conform with the 8 character truncation you mentioned below?

MichaelP said:
I think Color expects the source to look like an 8 character truncation of the full 16:

A001C001

then the full file name is a comment
*A001_C001_0103QZ

Michael
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help,
Dennis
 
Hi Dennis -

The 8 character truncation is done via the ALE created by REDCINE X and is not done when using AMA. I am still trying to harmonize all the metadata fields to be the same, but I'm not there yet...

Let me see if there is way to automate this without you having to jump through hoops.

Michael
 
Michael,

How long is Avid going to let FCP's Color eat its lunch? It's freaking unbelievable. MC's CC toolset simply pales in comparison.

And Symphony's CC tools haven't been updated in a decade. It's a freaking embarrassment. Now DaVinci is available for a grand. WTF is Avid thinking about? And apparently I can use an MC Color w/ RedCine-X but not with an Avid? I feel like shooting myself.

Avid has heard all this time and time and time again and has done NOTHING. It's crazy. No it's crazy that me and all these other Avid users and supporters keep on asking for better CC tools, b/c doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is, according to one authority, the definition of insanity.

Sorry for the rant, and PLEASE don't take it personally. It's just I spent a few hours in RedCine-X and always leave that app amazed at what Red and Assimilate put together in a handful of years. It's entirely arguable that RedCine-X has better CC tools than Media Composer. That is an embarrassment to Avid.

Again, nothing personal, YOU are a Godsend here.
 
Peter -

No offense taken on the rant. After 20 years with Avid I have heard a lot of feedback.. ;)

Certainly color correction, color management, and other related issues are becoming more and more important and Avid is quite aware of this. Being a public company, we cannot speak to futures outside the quarter boundary.

But for sake of discussion, the real request is for better integrated color correction within the editor. I don't know if it makes much sense to build a standalone color corrector when you have da vinci and Color available at price points that are already attractive to the market. da vinci even works with native MXF/DNxHD and I am actively working with them to ensure smooth conform and back operations. In the case of Color, it would be great for them to do a few things to make it better like AAF or even an EDL that has source ID for more than 8 characters.

But like I said, and want to be sure for discussion - better color correction control within the application is a preference for a lot of work over a separate dedicated color correction seat?

Michael
 
Michael,

I think you are absolutely right that Avid making a standalone grading app, kind of like a Marquee for CC, would be a disaster.

But improving CC tools inside MC, Symphony and DS is sorely needed. B/c if you can stay inside the timeline and the Avid family, life is much happier. I know you can use an EDL, and I've experienced AAF round tripping with Baselight. But working in the timeline is just so much easier.

I have to think that Avid has the ability to upgrade the CC tools, its just that the company has chosen not to. Avid must have this expertise in-house.

I actually asked FilmLight if there is any quality reason to use a Baselight over MC, Symphony or DS. Put another way, does Baselight perform its calculations with more precision or have some secret sauce that makes it better than Symphony, MC or DS?

Their answer was essentially, "No." I thought there would be a color depth difference somewhere or subtle way adjustments like changing saturation is performed, but apparently not (or not significantly so). So I have to think Avid has made a conscious effort to not improve its once excellent CC tools for a reason other than a lack of talent inside the company.

It's odd that at one time Avid saw CC as a reason for people to choose MC and Xpress Pro. But once Color was added to FCP, CC tool improvement went to a standstill... to be fair the ability to keyframe CC effects in MC/Symphony and select secondary color vectors in DS were added.

But yes, to answer your question, I'm talking about CC inside the app. And thanks again Michael for all the help you give everyone.
 
Michael,

Any luck on a work around for this 8 character truncation?

Thanks,
Dennis
 
Dennis -

You know my email. Please send me the bin with the final sequence.

Michael
 
Dennis Keeling said:
Michael,

Any luck on a work around for this 8 character truncation?

Thanks,
Dennis
Click to expand...

You could import a filmscribe xml into clipfinder and then send to fcp/color. Just be sure to activate the "sequence posistion" in the preferences. Have been using this with excellent results for a good while now. As long as the tapeID, camroll, clipname or custom/unc name (also selectable in the prefs) retains the original r3d name then it should work like a charm. I havn't tested this with mc5 yet but don't see why it wouldn't work like in mc4. Just be sure there are no time remapping or anything that would affect the timecode.

-noel
 
hai, thanks for sharing.
i wonder if this method will work on avid's ama media with different source materials such as sony xdcam ex or canon 5d?

thanks,

best regards.
 
Thx for explanation on this workflow...
I have a lot of 4,5k WS (4480x1920) projects, so the question is, if Color is doing a full debayer with it...
AND
What if I want to go the alternative route via DPX.... so ingesting the EDL from MC5 to REDCINE-X doing goodlight with RedlogFilm and Redgamma2 which is currently not provided from Color on native R3Ds.... anybody experimented with this route... ????
I want to work with the new Gamma because it brings me the most latitude to grading...


thx for input....
 
N_Villers said:
You could import a filmscribe xml into clipfinder and then send to fcp/color. Just be sure to activate the "sequence posistion" in the preferences. Have been using this with excellent results for a good while now. As long as the tapeID, camroll, clipname or custom/unc name (also selectable in the prefs) retains the original r3d name then it should work like a charm. I havn't tested this with mc5 yet but don't see why it wouldn't work like in mc4. Just be sure there are no time remapping or anything that would affect the timecode.

-noel
Click to expand...

Villers, I would love to hear more about your workflow. I haven't read much about people using FilmScribe to get their Avid timelines into FCP.

I have an MC5 timeline withe Red Media transcoded to DNx36 1080p via AMA. We're about to lock and planned to export an EDL that we import into Apple Color via the above methods. However, if we could somehow relink our timeline in FCP to the R3D before we Send to Color, that would be amazing for dealing with push-ins, time warps, etc.

Could you let me know your step by step process for FilmScribe?
 
Bump - I'm curious about this workflow as well. Trying to get an XML out of MC5 into FCP or Clipfinder that I could then point to R3Ds and finish in Adobe Premiere/AE. Anyone else doing this?
 
i don't know of any publicly available XML convertor from Avid FilmScribe XML to FCP XML. Someone may have created one for their own use. Keep in mind that FilmScribe XML is only a subset of everything that is in AAF. So it doesn't have everything in it that some people may be looking for - especially in VFX. ClipFinder and some of the transcode apps used the SCAN LIST XML from FilmScribe as a pull list as it would break down all elements used in a sequence, layers, and nests into an organized XML. That is very different than a composition.

Michael
 
MichaelP said:
i don't know of any publicly available XML convertor from Avid FilmScribe XML to FCP XML. Someone may have created one for their own use. Keep in mind that FilmScribe XML is only a subset of everything that is in AAF. So it doesn't have everything in it that some people may be looking for - especially in VFX. ClipFinder and some of the transcode apps used the SCAN LIST XML from FilmScribe as a pull list as it would break down all elements used in a sequence, layers, and nests into an organized XML. That is very different than a composition.

Michael
Click to expand...

Gotcha, thanks Michael.

Here's hoping to not be 1080P limited in the next release of Media Composer!
 
I had some problems with the filenames not being long enough. I then found this glorious site that I uploaded my AVID EDL to and it created a new one that worked great with FCP. It even lets me choose whether I want to link to the H, F, M or P proxies.

http://www.michaelcinquin.com/tools/red/red_editing_avid_to_fcp

Hope it helps you guys out.

Thanks,
Bjarki
 
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