Avid post workflow. What needs to be done?

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Python for the win!

 

[Dylan Reeve]

While I'm not currently working with RED, I am currently testing a similar workflow with DVCPRO HD (for a variety of reasons I won't delve too deeply into) I have to capture 720p25 Varicam footage in Edius then export DNxHD Quicktime files.

Importing those to Avid is fine (although painfully slow) however even when unlinking (or deleting the media) I am unable to alter the Start Timecode (either in the bin view directly, or with Modify Clip). I get the two warning dialogues, and approve them appropriately but no change is made.

Any feedback? It's is essentially the same workflow, I believe.

I'll try a few more options tomorrow (ran out of time today).

[Edited to Add:]
Seems I may have found the problem (haven't tested it yet).
- The clip needs to have a tape number attached.
So I can use the Modify Clip tool to assign a tape number, then I should be able to set timecode.

 

[MichaelP]

Same issue as you point out. The problem with assigning a TAPE within the Avis is that all imports will have the same tape ID and you are likely to have same timecode at some point. The ALE merge concept removes that issue, but requires a double import which is painful. Does Edius export any kind of log file?

Michael

 

[Dylan Reeve]

Same issue as you point out. The problem with assigning a TAPE within the Avis is that all imports will have the same tape ID and you are likely to have same timecode at some point. The ALE merge concept removes that issue, but requires a double import which is painful. Does Edius export any kind of log file?

Michael

Right, so editing the 'Source' of one imported clip will apply it to other clips?

As yet, I do not know if I can export any sort of log with Edius. I'm probably going to write a simple ALE making program to eliminate the double import. Looking at the Clip Info it would be great if I could define a UNC Location in the ALE, as it would make the Batch Import smart, but that doesn't seem likely.

[Edited to add]
So I've tried this now, with success, should work with RED-originated DNxHD Quicktimes too:

1. Import Quicktime into Avid
2. Select Clip in Bin
3. Modify Tape Number (Select Clip then Clip -> Modify then 'Set Source')
4. Then modify start Timecode (either type new one in Bin, or use Clip -> Modify)

In doing this I get a clip in the bin that matches the tape number and timecode of the original source tape.

The only problem I face now is an Avid one - there is no 720p25 project type - I have to use 720p50, which means each frame is duplicated in my source, which is fine, it just means I have to be careful which frame I cut on. The other option is to import into an Avid 1080p25 or 1080i50 project. However in this case that's forcing Avid to perform a software upres of the footage - which I haven't yet evaluated, quality wise. But for RED that won't be an issue, you'll be acquiring at greater than 720 anyway.

 

[MichaelP]

You will run into another problem, you cannot apply different tape names for imported files in doing what you are doing. You can work in 1080p/25 as you say, I would suggest you type the following into the console:
setresizetype 9

It uses a different algorithm for the uprez.

Michael

 

[Dylan Reeve]

You will run into another problem, you cannot apply different tape names for imported files in doing what you are doing. You can work in 1080p/25 as you say, I would suggest you type the following into the console:
setresizetype 9

It uses a different algorithm for the uprez.

I haven't had any trouble applying different tape names to clips? Although I can't get Avid to relink to it.

But at the moment that's not much help anyway, as it seems the timecode I get from the SD-mode output is not the same as the timecode with the HD capture anyway, so that workflow looks doomed.

As for the resize type, I've had that set for a while - didn't know it applied to upresing on import. Handy.

 

[Terry Wester]

Ok, I have an idea, If I can find a conversion program that can convert the quicktime references into Avid ready MXF files with matching timecode, could this solve the problem of getting footage into the Avid that will link back to the original .r3d files. Can anyone verify or deny that this might work.

Thanks

 

[MichaelP]

Yes it will work. But once Redcine exports all the metadata, the process will be the same as the merge file import of the QuickTime file directly.

Michael

 

[Terry Wester]

Yes it will work. But once Redcine exports all the metadata, the process will be the same as the merge file import of the QuickTime file directly.

Michael

Michael,

Thanks again for all your help. I don't have access to any red files or software yet. I have a project coming up in the next few weeks with a client that is renting a Red One, and I am trying to be prepared. If you don't mind I have a few more questions.

What is the specific metadata that is missing? Red Cine will output quicktimes with this data, that right now, Red Alert will not. Am I understanding this correctly?

And how will the merge file import work?

Again thinks for your help and sharing the great info.

 

[MichaelP]

I have not seen timecode from the original files inserted into the timecode of the QuickTime. I haven't tried the latest beta version to see if that is no longer true.

You will want to make sure that the file name is the same as the .r3d file and not change it since the file name combined with the timecode is used for the final conform.

My comment is that creating MXF wrapped QuickTime is a lot more engineering work than perhaps waiting for the metadata to come out of Redcine as a merged file. But that is up to Assimilate as to when that may be available.

Michael

 

[Terry Wester]

I have not seen timecode from the original files inserted into the timecode of the QuickTime. I haven't tried the latest beta version to see if that is no longer true.

You will want to make sure that the file name is the same as the .r3d file and not change it since the file name combined with the timecode is used for the final conform.

My comment is that creating MXF wrapped QuickTime is a lot more engineering work than perhaps waiting for the metadata to come out of Redcine as a merged file. But that is up to Assimilate as to when that may be available.

Michael

Michael,

One of the main reasons I am interested in the MXF Avid ready files is that the import on the Avid should be very fast. You could do all the converting on backroom computers, or maybe a render farm, so not to tie the Avid up on long imports. What do you think?

 

[Jeff Brue]

The fast import of DNxHD quicktimes is essentially just copying the media into mxf files and splitting them up into chuncks less than 2 GB. It's actually not bad at all if you have fast enough storage, faster than realtime. There are a lot of tricks to be had with this kind of a workflow to automate data entry as well....one of these day I really need to write them all out for everyone.

 

[Terry Wester]

The fast import of DNxHD quicktimes is essentially just copying the media into mxf files and splitting them up into chuncks less than 2 GB. It's actually not bad at all if you have fast enough storage, faster than realtime. There are a lot of tricks to be had with this kind of a workflow to automate data entry as well....one of these day I really need to write them all out for everyone.

Jeff,
It would be greatly appreciated if you shared you knowledge on this type of workfow. I am new to it, and just trying to get my head around it, so any help is of great value.

 

[Brenton]

Painful....

REDCINE to QuickTime wrapped DNxHD 145 (the only one it can do at this time).
Import into Avid. Delete Media.
Add START, END, and TAPE name to the column bin
Select ALL and export as ALE
Open in text editor
Put a value in the Tape name column
import ALE
select ALL
Batch import each clip to its corresponding QT file
Enter timecode and other metadata now that it has a tape associated with it.

A more detailed workflow will be done as soon as I get metadata to work with. For now, you can enter it by hand from the burn-in.

Michael

Michael, have you tested this work path?

I'm trying it at the moment but Avid is kicking me to the curb

I adjust the ALE and reimport it but it tells me
Batch import clip 1 of 1 FAILED: A001_C004_071101_RedMag.mov with error:
Exception: CM_NO_SOURCE

and if I try to modify the original clip it tells me
source Media not found

Anything else I could try?

Thanks in advance

Brenton

 

[Dylan Reeve]

Michael, have you tested this work path?

I'm trying it at the moment but Avid is kicking me to the curb

I adjust the ALE and reimport it but it tells me
Batch import clip 1 of 1 FAILED: A001_C004_071101_RedMag.mov with error:
Exception: CM_NO_SOURCE

and if I try to modify the original clip it tells me
source Media not found

Anything else I could try?

Thanks in advance

Brenton

Hey Brenton!

If you want to burn the DNxHD file to a DVD and send it to me I'd love to have a crack - I've been doing a fair bit of playing with importing and exporting files from Avid lately (not from RED, but the concept remains the same).

Dylan Reeve

 

[Brenton]

Hey Brenton!

If you want to burn the DNxHD file to a DVD and send it to me I'd love to have a crack - I've been doing a fair bit of playing with importing and exporting files from Avid lately (not from RED, but the concept remains the same).

Dylan Reeve

Haha I should have known that was your handle!

I'll output a couple for you now

Giz a ring bro bout midday.

B

 

[MichaelP]

Yes, this has worked for me. Make sure you hightlight the elments in the bin before doing a batch capture so that you merge the right QT clips to the clip in the bin.

Michael

 

[Dylan Reeve]

I've definitely been able to import clips into Avid, and set new timecode and source information without having to take them offline, or reimport them.

Step 1 - Set Source

1. Highlight Clip in bin
2. Right Click, select Modify
3. Select 'Set Source'
4. Pick/Create Source
5. Click 'OK' in Modify dialog.
6. Click OK in all warning dialogs

Step 2 - Set Timecode

1. Highlight Clip in bin
2. Right Click, select Modify
3. Select 'Set Timecode By Field' and choose 'Start'
4. Enter Timecode
5. Click 'OK' in Modify dialog
6. Click OK in all warning dialogs

or
With bin in 'Text' view, highlight clip and type new timecode. Then click okay for all warning.

I've done this with all manner of imported clips (including DNxHD from Redcine, although the images were broken, the metadata changing still worked).

 

[Jabez Olssen]

I just tried this, and it seems to me that you're right about Step 2; Changing the Source Timecode works. But I couldn't get Step 1 (Changing the Source) to work, the following error was displayed: "The clip(s) you have selected could not be modified. 1 is a master clip and could not be modified by this operation unless unlinked."

I've definitely been able to import clips into Avid, and set new timecode and source information without having to take them offline, or reimport them.

Step 1 - Set Source

1. Highlight Clip in bin
2. Right Click, select Modify
3. Select 'Set Source'
4. Pick/Create Source
5. Click 'OK' in Modify dialog.
6. Click OK in all warning dialogs

Step 2 - Set Timecode

1. Highlight Clip in bin
2. Right Click, select Modify
3. Select 'Set Timecode By Field' and choose 'Start'
4. Enter Timecode
5. Click 'OK' in Modify dialog
6. Click OK in all warning dialogs

or
With bin in 'Text' view, highlight clip and type new timecode. Then click okay for all warning.

I've done this with all manner of imported clips (including DNxHD from Redcine, although the images were broken, the metadata changing still worked).

 

[Dylan Reeve]

I just tried this, and it seems to me that you're right about Step 2; Changing the Source Timecode works. But I couldn't get Step 1 (Changing the Source) to work, the following error was displayed: "The clip(s) you have selected could not be modified. 1 is a master clip and could not be modified by this operation unless unlinked."

Hmm.. That may be the case if it already has a source associated with it? When I've been importing the clips they come in with no source set. If there is no source set, then I can't set the timecode (it looks like it will work, but it just doesn't).