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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Avid MC5 and RED's Workflow

We have used multiple KiPros for multicam live shoots going to 720p60 Prores with matching timecode using SB-T boxes on everything. KiPro will recognize TC through the SDI. You can't trigger the deck but the TC will match with the 4K master. We needed a 24 hour turnaround on the footage and couldn't transcode fast enough from 3 cameras.

This let us literally hand off the 2.5" Ki Pro drives and allow them to begin cutting in FCP. We have not yet tested the Prores timeline in Avid though, so that is a big variable in going straight to edit from RED off the KiPro.
 
How are you matching the file name when using the KiPro?

Michael
 
Jason, I don't understand something. The Ki is recording at 60 frames and the Red is recording at 23.976. How do you match edits on the Ki's 60p footage back to the Red's 24p footage?
 
Hi, how about using QTAKE HD Pro res video assist files. With the use of a timecode generator at the RED, the timecode is sent down the 720 50/59.94P video assist and QTAKE then can preform a reverse pulldown so you get frame accurate frames as well as timecode, embedded in the audio track. Testing is happening next week with a post house so will keep you informed. Anyone out there doing this? As someone said, it seems if a proven Avid offline workflow with Pro res can be achieved then QTAKE will be a better choice than Ki Pro because of the reverse pulldown for one, not to mention all the other features.

regards

Nigel
 
Oliver Peters said:
Here's a relevant blog post. The top half discusses a RED/MC5 offline-online workflow.

http://tinyurl.com/32jf2l8

- Oliver
Click to expand...

Oliver,

Do I understand this blog post correctly as it relates to Avid workflow?

In order to create DNxHD files and offline edit in Avid MC, and then properly relink to the R3D files for finishing, one needs to transcode using Avid MC5.
(As opposed to RedCine-X)

From posts like this (below), it would seem the case.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=647426&postcount=2
 
For now, you "can't cross the streams." ;)

AMA puts source ID into a column called SOURCE FILE. When using any of the existing methods such as MetaFuze, REDCINE X, RED RUSHES, MetaCheater, etc. the source ID goes into the TAPE column. It is not possible at this time to start with one method and conform with another within Media Composer or Symphony.

EDL's generated from MC5 do support either column and will switch to SOURCE FILE if there is nothing in TAPE.

Michael
 
Peter Matthes said:
In order to create DNxHD files and offline edit in Avid MC, and then properly relink to the R3D files for finishing, one needs to transcode using Avid MC5. (As opposed to RedCine-X)
Click to expand...

I think you received part of the answer, but the blog post was specifically discussing an MC5 offline and then an MC5 (or Symphony) online. So in that scenario, you would transcode all of your media at a draft quality for the creative cut. For finishing, you would transcode the clips again (just from the locked picture clips) at a higher resolution. And yes, all transcoding would be done strictly by MC, without any other software required. Not even Avid's own MetaFuze.

I haven't tried putting Redcine-X in the mix. There's probably a way to do this, but would most likely involve altering reel numbers in order to get AMA relinking to work properly. That takes us out of the "easy" realm without a clear advantage.

- Oliver
 
Hi guys,i'm running Avid mc5 5.0.3 on Mac OSX 10.6.3. With certain Red footage i can link to volume via AMA and playback is perfect with no transcoding. Then with other Red footage it seems to lag no matter if i even bring in a proxy at lowest res and playback. It's been suggested that with different Red "builds" one would need the new codecs for optimum playback. Any ideas?

Thanks,Shaun.
 
Would it be related to which resolution the files were recorded at?

Performance is different based on file size -i.e. 3K or 4K...and have you integrated a Red Rocket?
 
MichaelP said:
How is this customer finishing?

Michael
Click to expand...
My thought was to primarily provide them an Apple Pro Res copy that they can edit using Avid MC5.

However, they will certainly want the flexibility of the Red R3D files in case there is a need for major color correction.

Has anyone ever used a RED into a Keypro deck for instant Pro Res files?

_________________
watch movies online
 
I keep hearing Keypro deck but no one is mentioning how they relate the 16 character R3D file name to the ProRes proxy of the same file. There needs to be more than just timecode to make that work.

Michael
 
MichaelP said:
For now, you "can't cross the streams." ;)

AMA puts source ID into a column called SOURCE FILE. When using any of the existing methods such as MetaFuze, REDCINE X, RED RUSHES, MetaCheater, etc. the source ID goes into the TAPE column. It is not possible at this time to start with one method and conform with another within Media Composer or Symphony.
Click to expand...

I'm leery of disagreeing with MichaelP, but I think this is possible. I've been able to generate MXF media from REDcine-X, edit a sequence, and relink it to AMA-imported RED files.

The AMA files have no tape-name when they are imported, but can be modified to match the tape-name given to the corresponding clip by REDcine-X. Then you can relink based on tape and timecode.

Do you see any problems cropping up following this method?

Regards,
--Michael
 
Michael Brockington said:
The AMA files have no tape-name when they are imported, but can be modified to match the tape-name given to the corresponding clip by REDcine-X. Then you can relink based on tape and timecode.
Click to expand...

I shouldn't say "impossible" since there might be a workaround to a workaround, etc. But modifying file based sources to tape based sources is wandering into uncharted and untested waters and I don't know what might crop up as issues down the road. Not to mention the tedious process to modify each source to its own tape name since they are all unique. I'll check with engineering as to what possible things might go wrong.

This will be addressed in a release by end of year. I will try playing with some workarounds myself to see what might be possible now.


Michael
 
MichaelP said:
I shouldn't say "impossible" since there might be a workaround to a workaround, etc. But modifying file based sources to tape based sources is wandering into uncharted and untested waters and I don't know what might crop up as issues down the road. Not to mention the tedious process to modify each source to its own tape name since they are all unique. I'll check with engineering as to what possible things might go wrong.

This will be addressed in a release by end of year. I will try playing with some workarounds myself to see what might be possible now.


Michael
Click to expand...

There are always workarounds, but unsupported hacks are really not for the faint of heart. We happen to use one to allow us to relink to original AVC-Intra files directly in a Media Composer ( I don't think I've told you about that one, Michael......), but we're well aware of what we're doing and also aware that it's unsupported. I definitely wouldn't recommend that approach to individuals.
 
MichaelP said:
This will be addressed in a release by end of year. I will try playing with some workarounds myself to see what might be possible now.
Michael
Click to expand...

That's good to hear. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to do the initial transcode of RED footage without tying up a Media Composer license -- ie. using REDcine-X or MetaFuze, but would like to be able to easily relink a locked cut to AMA RED clips for a final transcode.
 
Michael Brockington said:
That's good to hear. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to do the initial transcode of RED footage without tying up a Media Composer license -- ie. using REDcine-X or MetaFuze, but would like to be able to easily relink a locked cut to AMA RED clips for a final transcode.
Click to expand...

I've been reading this thread with interest as I've been working with the same workflow on a recent job. It was only a 30 spot so I ended up just re-editing by hand with the R3D files.

But I'll add another voice that says an update where we can offline with Redcine-X created DNxHD 36 files and then relink to AMA R3D files will be very, very, very nice. And should be a no-brainer with what's possible in MC5.

To add icing on the cake would be the ability to do re-framing from 4K, 2K R3Ds in the 1080 (or 720, SC, whatever) frame. An inability to do that will keep me having to send some jobs to our Quantel but it sure would be nice to reframe in MC 5 since the 4K rez is there.
 
Yes, the reframing back to the original 2K, 3K, 4K file would be nice.

Michael
 
MichaelP said:
I keep hearing Keypro deck but no one is mentioning how they relate the 16 character R3D file name to the ProRes proxy of the same file. There needs to be more than just timecode to make that work.

Michael
Click to expand...

However, they will certainly want the flexibility of the Red R3D files in case there is a need for major color correction.

Has anyone ever used a RED into a Keypro deck for instant Pro Res files?

_________________
watch movies online
 
weshi said:
Has anyone ever used a RED into a Keypro deck for instant Pro Res files?
Click to expand...

There are several reasons why it is not an acceptable solution.
 
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