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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Avid MC offline -> Adobe After Effects for RAW effects finishing: Any ideas?

D

David_D

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Hey everyone,

I am trying out different workflows for upcoming projects. Mostly, I offline in Media Composer, generate a Filmscribe Master XML and conform in RedCine, perform an equivalent of a techlight and render out DnX HD QTs and re-ingest in Media Composer for final finishing and color correction (mostly for music videos and short films, nothing major).

I would be interested in loading up my RAW R3D media into After Effects for a bit of RAW color correction, effects in 4K without the 4K DPX file sizes, etc. (as per the relatively recent improved RED support in After Effects). I know it is possible to generate an FCP XML of a sequence, import into Premiere for conform and sendto After Effects. Does anyone know of a way from an Avid sequence? I have tried an AAF export from MC with no luck, premiere won't import a Filmscribe Master XML either. Don't suppose there is an XSLT floating around somewhere that would allow this?

David Di Francesco
editor Avid / Final Cut
 
I thought that Premiere support an AAF from Avid? I saw that at NAB. I don't know of an XSL file that goes from FilmScribe XML to FCP XML.

Michael
 
Yes I'd also like to use this workflow. Apparently you can export an AAF from Avid into Premiere and then into AE. Great. However, my avid project is an offline with DV quality clips. How do I connect these back to the original R3D files when I get into AE?

Is it just a case of bringing the AAF seq into premiere and manually reconnecting each shot to the similarly named original R3d file? Is there any way to do this in an automated way? Is it even possible to do it manually? Anyone know?

Thanks for your help
 
What does Premiere/After Effects use for the relink/conform? Tape Name? If so, are does the tape ID in Avid match?

Michael
 
The avid offline media files were created from an ALE (avid log exchange) and proxies created by RedRushes - so they should have all the right tape names etc.

Can I reconnect the offline clips in Premiere or AE to the original R3D files?
 
I can't even get an AAF in. Every time I try, I get a 'reported a generic error' message and nothing imports. Albeit, this is most likely a problem on the Adobe side of things, but it sure does put a damper on any workflows. That's why I was wondering if an XSL used on a FS master XML wouldn't be simpler then spending the next few months waiting for Adobe to care enough to fix the AAF imports.

I also tried importing an EDL generated from a FS XML. The problem is Premiere won't accept a CMX 3600 with more than 8 characters for the tape name, so the relink is not automatic. I tried relinking to the 4K (_F) Quicktime proxies manually, which seemed to work until I realized that it didn't take into account timecode. It just started the clips on the first frame, regardless of where I had cut it, so it seems that the relink process does not read timecode in the Quicktime metadata.

From there, however, sending to After Effects works well and, as far as I can tell, it is playing around with the RAW footage. I tried applying some pretty intense color corrections (exposure changes, gamma corrections, etc.) and I was getting some pretty good results, no banding, so I am assuming this is good. If only that whole pesky conform detail would work.
 
edl/filename mangling

edl/filename mangling

hi david
in my other project (jamfuze) i've learned loads about parsing edls and filenames
so if you post here -an edl that you've made
and a folder full of "aliases"/shortcuts to the files you need to relink to

i might be able to do a script/application to alter both the EDL and the names of the files so they would match
it might be best if i do it on the "aliases"/shortcuts then the originals would keep their original filename but i'm not sure if that would work...
maybe something called symlinks would.. thinking aloud
i would write it on a mac but the scripting stuff would all be available on a pc using cygwin or a little bit of translation from PC scripting gurus (ie not me)
let me know if this would help as i've got "mess about"/research time to myself on friday.
j
 
Hi Jamie,

Very cool of you to offer. At the moment, though, I don't think it would be worthwhile to spend time on the EDL side of this coin. Aside from the lack of auto-relinking onto an EDL, as I mentionned, Premiere is unable to read the TC metadate embedded in the QT file (like most NLEs other then FCP. Even Avid wasn't doing it until recently). So even if you could script something that would allow to relink the EDL events to the proper media, it would still not jump to the correct TC in that clip, it would just start from frame '0' of said clip.

The only way I can see this happening is if we had a way to generate events of the complete master clips (as shot) of the selects, relink those, then import an EDL or something of the final edit and relink that to said master clips (or whatever Premiere likes to call clips in the project). Then we'd be in business for a simple 'send to' to After Effects. (After writing this, I tested it and this is exactly how an FCP XML is handled. It creates masterclips and then a sequence linked to those masterclips).
 
edl to link to r3d

edl to link to r3d

ok....
so if premiere can't do the QT timecode...
can it do the timecode in the R3D file?
i don't know much about premiere's capabilities but it does seem to be trying hard to be a universal in/out thing!
then I could "collect" all the R3D files required for an edit ("find" R3D name from red16 EDL and make symlinks to them and put all symlinks in 1 folder) then premiere could relink to those symlinks and extract the timecode required from the R3D file.
then you send to after effects...
maybe? any hope?
we've got a lot of after effects junkies here at work (they haven't done any RED stuff yet though) so it would be worth me doing this for myself.
cheers
j
 
Ok, turns out that there was a problem with the order in which I had installed Premiere and the Adobe RED plugin, so I wasn't getting all of the functionnalities Iwas supposed to. I wasn't able to import an .R3D file directly before, so I just assumed Premiere worked through the Proxies like FCP, color, etc. But with the plugin installed correctly (after having updated to Premiere 4.1), I can now import an .R3D directly.

And you are correct, if I import an EDL and 'link media' manually to the .R3D file, it is then able to read the timecode and display the correct frame in the constructed sequence. So, your Symlink idea just might be worth a shot.

So what do you need exactly? A RED16 formatted EDL and...? How about the ALE originally used to import the Proxies into Avid (generated from a REDcine XML converted using an XSL? Those contain the correct paths.
 
what i need...

what i need...

hey D
sounds like we might be on to something...
so yeah i need the EDL and ALE and a bit of time where I'm not grading all day!
so can you zip up those things and put them here for me and I'll pick em up and see what i can do.
if anyone else is up to the task while i'm busy with the day job I won't be offended...
like i say i may need this soon.
j
 
Ok, here is a .zip file containing, as promised, a RED16 formatted EDL and a REDCine generated ALE which I used to import the QT proxies into Avid. This gives you the path of all the footage that was shot, and the EDL gives you the selects, obviously.

For the renaming, I don't know what you had in mind, but it seems to me that renaming your symlinks ex.: A001C023 (as opposed to A001_C023_0649QS or whatever) would allow to generate a proper 8 character source CMX 3600 EDL that will import properly into Premiere, while ensuring that each clip name is still unique. Then it would just be a matter of manually modifying the EDL so the source names match the new names and we're in business. I tested it with a folder full of aliases this morning, though, and Premiere still made me manually select each clip even if they were in the same folder, but I think this is because they were aliases. Hopefully, your symlink thing will fool the system.
 

Attachments

got it

got it

right
got the stuff
will have a think this weekend while in a tent (!) with my kids (!!)
i've got a few hours monday to mess about (i call it research.....)
the only problem i can think of will be spanning where the R3D file goes over 2GB and whether premiere would know about looking across the whole of the file (_001,_002 etc etc) like redline does.
this is just me being unfamiliar with premiere. maybe you could try it on 1 file
and see....
I should have something for you monday pm
i'll post it here.
j
 
first try

first try

www.jamieparry.demon.co.uk/avid2ae.zip

OS X only 10.5 probably!

run the app from the desktop
double click it
find the R3D folder (so for your example it would be CindyDaniel_Etjespere)
find the edl (AvidtoAE_RED16EDL.edl)
click OK
when it's done...
a folder called symlinks appears on your desktop
in it are "8 character symlinks" that link to the original _001.R3D files in your AVID EDL
and a file called "premiere.edl"
this is a copy of the avid 16 character edl but with the "8 character symlink" name instead of the 16 char R3D file.
the OS should treat them EXACTLY the same however!(here's hoping)
fyi
only the EDL is used to do this. The ALE is not necessary as the unix find command is quite good and reports the full file path so i can use it.
j
 
Hope the kids weren't too upset

Hope the kids weren't too upset

Hope yours kids weren't too upset about you working on the weekend instead of taking them camping ;)

Tested your script. It feels like a good track, but it's not working at the moment. Premiere gives me a fatal error and tells me it needs to shut down every time I try to 'link media' or simply select one of them to import as a clip. I think we have tapped into some way of working that Premiere really doesn't like. Although, if I try to just open a symlink manually through the finder (which in theory would launch RedAlert), it tells me 'the alias could not be opened, because the original item cannot be found' (although clearly, when it created them, I saw in your GUI that it was properly finding the .R3D media, and if I run a 'Get Info' on the alias, the path it gives me is correct). If I try to manually fix the alias and link it to the .R3D by hand, it gives me a error message.

I also tried adding an .R3D extension to the symlink and opening it in RedAlert. It did not link to the original .R3D either.

Otherwise, the EDL that your script generates seems to work properly. It imports well.

Is it possible the symlinks aren't being created properly?
 
ooooh so close!

ooooh so close!

hey d
i woke up Saturday feeling ill (not a hangover...) and my mrs didn't want me in the car with the kids puking!
so they went off to do fun stuff and i just went back to bed.
when i woke up i was OK but a bit bored.
so i had to keep myself occupied with this!
right.....

www.jamieparry.demon.co.uk/avid2ae2.zip

i was doing relative paths not absolute paths. which works if your R3D files are all IN the chosenfolder (not in a folder in a folder in the chosen folder if you get me....)
so it worked in my test case cos tht's what i did!
should be ok to make the symbolic links properly now.
errr maybe....
j
 
Alright, seems to work quite well now. Unfortunately, however, Premiere still won't allow an auto-relink to all the clips at once, so it requires the user to go through the symlink folder and link media one at a time. A little annoying, but I don't think there is a way around it. A little annoying, but since your script already collects them all in order into one folder, hardly a major problem for short projects. And I don't think anyone will want to use this workflow for features, anyway.

Great job, Jamie. Much obliged.
 
no probs

no probs

if the relink works like AVID's relink
you have to "select all" in the dialog box of "master clips that are offline", THEN give it the folder to look in.
i'm going to downloiad the demo of premiere today.
then i can really be a geek and have Final Cut Studio, Avid Media Composer and Premiere all on 1 machine! (with After Effects across the corridor!)
cheers David
glad it worked for ya.
i'll roll it in to jamfuze somehow!
j
 
Dude, I'm already running Avid, FCP, Premiere and After Effects on the same machine. You just called me a geek and I resent it. Oh wait, I guess it does make me a geek. Damn. :frown2:
 
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