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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Avatar, Scarlet & HDSRL

E

enrico parenti

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Avatar looks great and it's 2k with behind a 600 million dollar budget, but still 2k, other movies with micro budget look great too.

This documentary and many more video I saw are incredible and it's 1080p DSRL http://vimeo.com/6995256
http://documentarytech.com/?p=1403

Scarlet it's still theoretically the best camera to come.

The point is that pixel count and marvelous codecs are not a real issue for me and I believe should not be for many of you.

Now I am impressed with the doc I mentioned because it's the first independent micro budget documentary shoot with shallow focus during risky war operations, the point is that we will get used to shallow focus over time we will see parents shooting their children's with great auto-focus features on futuristic cameras.

What I want to say is that apart from storytelling, it's now the moment where this photographic advancement in video can still count a lot, it's now that they can stand out.... I will get a HDSRL while Scarlet gets forged and then we will see which one it's better.

Ciao


www.indydoc.it
 
I'm pretty happy with my 5D2 while waiting for Scarlet. Mostly excited for the chance to work with RAW data.. I've been a Photoshop junkie for almost 13yrs and can tell you that the difference in post play is MAJOR. I just like watching RED evolve as a transparent company, very exciting.. I only wish they would have been documenting their own making-of story from day one.. That would definitely make for a great documentary !

Love and Aloha, iamKP-
 
enrico parenti said:
Avatar looks great and it's 2k with behind a 600 million dollar budget, but still 2k, other movies with micro budget look great too.

This documentary and many more video I saw are incredible and it's 1080p DSRL http://vimeo.com/6995256
http://documentarytech.com/?p=1403

Scarlet it's still theoretically the best camera to come.

The point is that pixel count and marvelous codecs are not a real issue for me and I believe should not be for many of you.

Now I am impressed with the doc I mentioned because it's the first independent micro budget documentary shoot with shallow focus during risky war operations, the point is that we will get used to shallow focus over time we will see parents shooting their children's with great auto-focus features on futuristic cameras.

What I want to say is that apart from storytelling, it's now the moment where this photographic advancement in video can still count a lot, it's now that they can stand out.... I will get a HDSRL while Scarlet gets forged and then we will see which one it's better.

Ciao


www.indydoc.it
Click to expand...

Most people on here know this. And it's not always about the resolution. It's about basic professional tools that are expected iin this industry, like SOUND. A mini jack is not something you can use on a working set. You need pro XLR inputs. While a lot of people do use HDMI for their video taps, you will find most use SDI.

Can you make a good movie without this stuff? Well, yeah.. Of course.. You can make a good move with an HVX200.. But you will fight with sound, and the workflow of the camera might slow you down.

In this industry time is money. And the camera needs to be build to taken an incredible beating, meet current industry standards, AND have good resolution, color depth, and finally, a codec that's robust enough to fix a shot that may not be perfect.

I always tell people, "one of the differences between professional grade and prosumer grade is that professional grade allows you to screw up a little more and still save what you shot".

Hope this helpe.

:001_smile:
 
I know this is not the subject here but... What is the color space of videos shot with the 5D2, 1D4 or 7D ?
 
Argh ! I wish it had 4:2:2 at least !... Too bad...
 
4:2:2 wouldn't help them in the least - you'd be wasting your bits recording info that doesn't look to be much there.

Graeme
 
Just had my first 5D Mk2 shoot yesterday. The results were better than any 1/3" chip I've seen. At least on par with most 2/3" ENG cameras but not in the same ballpark as RED. Sure you could get a similar result but you're going to have to put a lot more energy to get it.

Also you could definitely see the loss of resolution and compression in fine details like stubble which were barely resolved at 1080p. In comparison the down-rezzed stills picked up all of it.

I would much rather muck around with color temp, sharpness, contrast, brightness and ISO in post than on set with a small crowd of agency folk milling about. Even if the image were identical between scarlet and DSLRs the workflow makes scarlet the clear winner.
 
Just a note, it's "HDSLR"

Yeah, the HD video modes on the Canon DSLR's is a great indicator of what's to come on future models. I think once Canon puts in their new MPEG 4:2:2 codec or at least something better than h.264 then we'll really start to see more product made with DSLR cameras. People are finicky about their codecs, you know. I'd love to pick up a Canon 550D when it comes out but at the March timeframe I might as well wait for Scarlet or at least see what is announced at NAB. Plus, who knows what Nikon and Panasonic are cooking up for later this month at PMA.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
4:2:2 wouldn't help them in the least - you'd be wasting your bits recording info that doesn't look to be much there.

Graeme
Click to expand...

Graeme, would you mind expanding on this a little bit? I understand a little of the technical differences between 4:2:0, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 but how much difference would I see between the types and where would I see them?
 
You'd need to look on strong chroma edges for blockyness or or on strong luma edges for false colours, but they can in the vdslr be equally caused by the poor downsampling.

As for MPEG2 - it's very little different from MPEG1 other than supporting interlaced as well as progressive. h264 is much more advanced than MPEG2, so I see move from h264 to MPEG2 as a retrograde step. After all, they're all IBP long gop none-edit friendly.

Graeme
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Also you could definitely see the loss of resolution and compression in fine details like stubble which were barely resolved at 1080p. In comparison the down-rezzed stills picked up all of it.
Click to expand...

There is allot of "temporal" or whatever resolution hidden in 5D and 7D footage. I've had great results with blowing 7D up footage to 4k, flattening, sharpening, removing noise/chroma blurring, and then going back down to 1080p. The difference is night and day and now when you start grading, if you've done the whole process in ProRes 4444 (or equivalent), you've got a near RAW image to play with.
 
Could you go into a little more detail about what tools you are using for sharpening and removing noise?
 
Of course, any magic source applied to a video to improve it, can also be used to improve other sources of video too. You may be able to remove some noise and compression artifacts, but there are limits how far that can go, and it's always better to start with the info than generate it afterwards.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
4:2:2 wouldn't help them in the least - you'd be wasting your bits recording info that doesn't look to be much there.

Graeme
Click to expand...

I think i agree with the meaning here, but as a warning to HDSLR shooters... The canon XHA1 footage and Pan HVX 200 footage (when not overly "cine looked") has a MUCH more robust color space in post than the HDSLR stuff. HDSLR just falls apart.

Not that it shouldn't be used! Just have it all perfectly planned and executed on set, for your own sake.

Make good stuff! :-)

Jeff
 
Jeffrey T. Morgan said:
I think i agree with the meaning here, but as a warning to HDSLR shooters... The canon XHA1 footage and Pan HVX 200 footage (when not overly "cine looked") has a MUCH more robust color space in post than the HDSLR stuff. HDSLR just falls apart.
Click to expand...

I don't know why people keep saying this... It's completely false. Yea, compared to Redcode, or XDCAM, there is obviously less color space. But HDSLR footage PROPERLY handled in post, i.e. trans-coding, will not break apart. There are also some tricks for hiding artifacts once you're in a better color space. I personally, like to drop the mids and de-saturate the image, then start adding color back in secondary color correction. Now you are actually adding color information, not just color, back to the image because the computer will have a better value for each pixle instead of fighting with sub sampling.

Still, this will not look as good as an image captured at 4:4:4, but it makes a hell of difference when compared to poorly handled SLR footage.
 
The Secret Advantage to HDSLR's

The Secret Advantage to HDSLR's

The one thing that no one has mentioned is that this camera pays for itself in one or two gigs, This month alone I have shot Alice in Chains, 3 Chevron training modules and a wine product commercial and not one client has complained that the footage is 4:2:0. The small form factor, killer glass and insane battery life make it a winner for working DP's. When Red Tails hits theaters, there will be allot less HDSLR haters sitting on the sidelines.
 
Bob Gilles said:
The one thing that no one has mentioned is that this camera pays for itself in one or two gigs, This month alone I have shot Alice in Chains, 3 Chevron training modules and a wine product commercial and not one client has complained that the footage is 4:2:0. The small form factor, killer glass and insane battery life make it a winner for working DP's. When Red Tails hits theaters, there will be allot less HDSLR haters sitting on the sidelines.
Click to expand...

That is truly awesome! My XHA1 did the same. I bought it for a documentary in africa, the camera was paid for before it arrived. I have always operated this way, where something is bought only if its already paid for. Its just great to not WORRY about payments, etc. Which is of course why HDSLRs and SCARLET have been / will be so popular.

And its a big reminder to one thing i dont hear mentioned enough, WHEN SOMETHING JUST WORKS. haha.

Apple has made that fairly obvious.

I really hope the workflow for Scarlet can be dialed down in simplicity because a LOT of folks work in a world where they need to grab, shoot capture and edit in a single step each. Or at least they want to.

This brings me to my HDSLR comment. I am not a hater, at all. All I EVER care about is the final product. And neither I nor my clients took the time to transcode the footage so they could work with it, not in any multi step process anyway. And thats the warning I was trying to give. As it is, fresh out of camera, its hard to work with. and if you are in that price point, you are often not enjoying long days, big crews, and DIT. if you are, thats great!

It was just a warning that the workflow is different, and if its not good in camera, you have a lot of work cut out for you, ASSUMING its not just too late.

One of my Scarlet excitements is not having a silly Redrock M2 to deal with ( I dont use it whenever I can, but for indie flicks........ ) and yes, HDSLRs have this going for them too. They are awesome.

Jeff
 
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