ATTO R680 Storage configurations

[Jody Neckles]

I'm looking at this card very seriously but need some advice.
I want to use the system for heavy onset data management and Post:

4 slots in a mac:
1= Gfx card
2= Rocket
3= Video card
4= SAS card

I have chosen a dual port ATTO card as I believe I can connect SAS devices *and* eSATA at the same time.

a) 1st SAS port to connect to high speed local storage. I can get a fantastic deal on a 16BAY infortrend ES A16S-G2130.

b) I *need* the 2nd SAS port for connecting eSata shuttle drives and RED stations. This is important as I will not have another slot for an eSATA card. Back at the office I would remove the shuttle drives and connect an LTO SAS drive.

Is the R680 the way to go and will it support a SAS to eSata fan out cable for my drives + RED station? Or is it better to choose the H680 Atto card?


Also regarding the infortrend box i'm a little nervous is will be too loud to have on set. Would a Maxx Digital 4K EVO storage solution be less noisy than an Infortrend box?

 

[Jody Neckles]

Thanks in advance for any advice given.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

For eSATA fan-out, go with the H6xx card. The only reason to go with the R680 version is if you need the RAID controller. Mixing SATA and SAS devices is fine, but don't do it on the same header and you won't be able to mix them if you have RAID functionality enabled on the R680 card. By not mixing on the same header, I mean that you don't want to use a fan-out cable and connect one channel to a SAS device and the next to a SATA device via that same fan-out cable.

The H680 works great with an eSATA fan-out cable going to RED Station modules and eSATA devices while having an HP LTO drive connected to the other SAS connector. As an example.

The Infotrend unit you mention looks pretty good, but AFAIK, it requires connection to both SAS ports for full operation. Not a problem, take a look at the ATTO H6F0 SAS card -- it has 4 external mini-SAS connectors. You should be able to connect to of those to the RAID unit, one of them to an LTO tape and the other with an eSATA fan-out. My biggest concern there is you could potentially be running a lot through that one card -- a potential bottleneck in that single X4 slot, but in a Mac Pro, there are not too many other options.

Looking at the Infotrend RAID, I'm unsure if it actually requires both of its mini-SAS host connectors to be used for full operation? I would assume so. Also, is it a complete RAID-on-chassis design or do you need a RAID host in your system as well? I haven't looked into the Infotrend unit any more to know. I also have no idea how loud it might be. But will say that most RAID enclosures like that tend to be noisy. They're designed for server rooms and not for whisper-quient environments like movie sets -- they're usually locked away in a separate room.

 

[Jody Neckles]

For eSATA fan-out, go with the H6xx card. The only reason to go with the R680 version is if you need the RAID controller. Mixing SATA and SAS devices is fine, but don't do it on the same header and you won't be able to mix them if you have RAID functionality enabled on the R680 card. By not mixing on the same header, I mean that you don't want to use a fan-out cable and connect one channel to a SAS device and the next to a SATA device via that same fan-out cable.

The Infortrend box has an inbuilt RAID controller but if i was just JBOD are you suggesting the R680 *could* be used to connect to it via one of the SAS ports, whilst the other SAS port fans out, via an SAS to eSATA cable to RED stations and GRAIDS etc?

As I would not be needing RAID on the ATTO card i'll save some cash and go for the H680. I believe you can connect to the Infortrend array with one SAS cable but I will double check.

 

[Thomas Koch]

Any idea what cable to get to do the esata fanout? I got the Highpoint Tech one and it doesn't work with my H680. It works with my HPT card though. However I have to have the drive connected and on during bootup for it to recognize. If I eject it, and then replug it in, it isn't recognized. I don't want to have to reboot after each SSD is unloaded.

Is there a way to force the card to boot the drive?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm using the HighPoint cable for fan-out, works great with H680 as well as R380 and R680.

They have two variations, both can be bought from NewEgg, Provantage, etc. Make sure you get the mini-SAS to eSATA fan out cable and not the one that fans out to standard SATA. The latter is not properly grounded for eSATA use and that could be causing your inability to hot-swap.

Also be sure you have the latest firmware and drivers for your ATTO card. Beyond that, I don't know what else would be going on. I use the fan out cables all the time here and hot-swap drives no problem. So I guess I'd need more information if I were to try and figure it out. And each channel is independent SAS/SATA, so you can connect an eSATA storage unit and a SAS LTO at the same time and use them simultaneously.

There are some restrictions with the RAID cards and using other devices. Not all devices play nice if you have the card configured as a RAID host. But that does not apply to the H680.

 

[paul engstrom]

Hi Jeff et. al.

I'm trying to make sure I've got this clear:

Can an R680 do the following:

Function as a RAID card, controlling a JBOD with Caviar Black SATA drives (requiring one mini-SAS connection)

while also either:
using mini-SAS - esata fan out cable to connect to an esata RED station + shuttle drive

or:
using mini-SAS cable to connect to/use HP LTO4

Thanks for feedback; we're trying to negotiate our limited slots!

 

[paul engstrom]

bump.

 

[Alex Carr]

Hi Jeff et. al.

I'm trying to make sure I've got this clear:

Can an R680 do the following:

Function as a RAID card, controlling a JBOD with Caviar Black SATA drives (requiring one mini-SAS connection)

while also either:
using mini-SAS - esata fan out cable to connect to an esata RED station + shuttle drive

or:
using mini-SAS cable to connect to/use HP LTO4

Thanks for feedback; we're trying to negotiate our limited slots!

No, you are a little confused... You cannot have a RAID card set in RAID and JBOD. If you will not use the RAID controller why buy it??? Go with the H680, its an HBA, so you can software RAID some of the drives(if needed) while keeping other ports open. I used 4 ports for Software RAID(osx), then the other for CF readers, LTO, ext Drives etc... But not all external drives work with the Fan-out cable!!!!

FYI, SAS will not support sata Port multipliers. So no G-RAIDS, Lacie Big disks, Drobo etc.. etc.. Anything with more than 1 Drive inside that does not have a SAS connection cannot work. I always keep a sil3132 e-sata card in my system, rock solid.

This is the reason I refuse to own a real mac. Here's my slot config.
1- GTX 295
2
3- Atto H380 (cheap internal 8 drive software Raid, 600MB/s)
4- Rocket
5- BlackMagic 3d
6- AttoH380 (this is dedicated to CF readers, LTO, 1.8")
7- 4 Lane PCi-e x4 expander

a1 sil3132
a2 Fw800
a3 Pci-e SxS reader
a4 Pci-e SxS reader

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I hate offering up conflicting info, but here it is...

The ATTO SAS cards are fully SATA / eSATA compliant and fully support multipliers with the last few firmware and driver releases. There are indeed occasional incompatibilities or hardware glitches, but I have no trouble running G-RAIDs or CalDigit S2VR, VR2-mini, etc.. drives from the ATTO cards.

Alex is correct though if you run the R680 or other similar RAID card in RAID mode, you lose options for connecting individual eSATA devices. It's a pain, so if you're using the ATTO card to host a RAID array, then you will want a separate eSATA card for connecting eSATA devices. In a pinch, you can connect an eSATA drive to a card that is hosting a RAID, and just make it a separate RAID volume with one device. It works, but it's a pain and isn't a true plug and play solution. This is not an ATTO thing, this is an eSATA RAID thing and something that applies to controllers from Areca and Highpoint as well as others.

SAS devices are more flexible and you can combine RAID and individual drives on the same host. For example, you can run 4 SAS HDDs in a RAID off one SAS header and then connect an LTO tape system to the other, as an example. But that is not a very popular solution as SAS HDD's tend to be the ones with lower capacities, faster rotational speeds and higher prices.

Lately, I've become more a fan of the self-contained RAID solution. You buy your MAXX Digital, Promise, G-Tech, etc.. RAID enclosure and connect it directly to your eSATA or SAS host. They are more expensive in some regards, but they also free up a lot of configuration options and provide a complete package to the customer with support. Not a bad deal, IMO. OTOH, some dual-head SAS enclosures can be had for around $500 and support 8 drives, each on their own SATA/SAS channel and you can run the RAID from the host adapter. Low cost and screaming performance.

The Mac Pro PCIe slot situation is a problem. PCIe expansion is an option, but not a cheap one. IMO, I think most PCIe enclosures are terribly overpriced given the simplicity of what they really are. And there are still limits as to what you can pile onto a single PCIe X16 slot. Especially if you're talking about performance RAID cards and additional GPUs.

 

[paul engstrom]

Thanks guys,

Its all slots issues right now. Have one system with Cubix and debating second system right now -- but trying to avoid the Cubix as I think the need for them will be short-lived (i.e. poor ROI) and they mess up the way we package our system big time.

Good to know that R680 can run LTO and can be used as i/o with esata. Too bad can't really do this with the card in RAID mode -- although thanks for the work-around you described (making esata connected drive a seperate RAID volume.)

Reason for R680 is that we might repurpose the card and JBOD enclosure into a RAID once the next macs come out. We are currently using R380 and H380 in one of our systems right now.

Thanks to both of you for your feedback in these areas.

 

[Alex Carr]

To be Honest, I have not tested it in at least 6 months. I was talking to ATTO a year or so ago and they didnt seem like port multipliers would be compatible at all. That may have changed for the better recently, I haven't had any luck with anything other than single drive enclosures from the Fanout cable.

 

[T. vd Hoff]

Lately, I've become more a fan of the self-contained RAID solution. You buy your MAXX Digital, Promise, G-Tech, etc.. RAID enclosure and connect it directly to your eSATA or SAS host. They are more expensive in some regards, but they also free up a lot of configuration options and provide a complete package to the customer with support. Not a bad deal, IMO. OTOH, some dual-head SAS enclosures can be had for around $500 and support 8 drives, each on their own SATA/SAS channel and you can run the RAID from the host adapter. Low cost and screaming performance.

Hi Jeff,

Can you elaborate some more?

Given the Mac Pro expansion limits, I want a HBA/RAID controller to attach high speed and reliable storage (SAS RAID) as well as individual eSATA disks/red station and off course a LTO-4 SAS tape drive. If I understand correctly you'll want to have a self contained RAID system so you don't need your HBA to perform RAID tasks and limit your options of connecting individual eSata devices.
Everywhere I look, including G-tech, Caldigit and the likes, all enclosures seem to be dumb boxes that 'outsource' RAID management to a proprietary PCIe RAID controller or a bundled Atto or Areca card. Am I missing something?

I'd really appreciate some assistance as I've been putting quite some time in understanding all this technology stuff without finding the proper solution. Your advice seems invaluable!

Thanks!

Tim

 

[Elliott Balsley]

Alex is correct though if you run the R680 or other similar RAID card in RAID mode, you lose options for connecting individual eSATA devices. It's a pain, so if you're using the ATTO card to host a RAID array, then you will want a separate eSATA card for connecting eSATA devices. In a pinch, you can connect an eSATA drive to a card that is hosting a RAID, and just make it a separate RAID volume with one device. It works, but it's a pain and isn't a true plug and play solution. This is not an ATTO thing, this is an eSATA RAID thing and something that applies to controllers from Areca and Highpoint as well as others.

Jeff, could you explain this a bit more? This old thread is the only place I've seen mention of this possibility. I don't own a RAID card myself, so can't test it yet. If you make an eSATA drive a single device volume on an R680, what problems or limitations are there, does it work with a RedStation? Do you have to format the drive after plugging it in?