Assimilate has released SCRATCH RED Pre-Post

[Fredrik Harreschou]

If Assimilate had a Scratch system that was affordable for the Final Cut Pro set, not only would every Red camera owner buy one. But every Red camera renter, or Redcode on Final Cut Pro editor would also buy it.

Would it be better for a software company to sell 100 seats at 50.000 or 1000 seats at 5.000? Someone with a better understanding of business economy than me could probably say. But if you could find the price that most RED users/owners could live with - and not only post houses and big production companies - my GUESS is you would probably get a higher revenue. I think they would have sold A LOT of seats if the price was around 10K for the software. You can run it on a $2.000 PC.

But I'm not trying to learn anyone how to run a business. Assimilate have people with brains, no doubt.

 

[I Bloom]

Would it be better for a software company to sell 100 seats at 50.000 or 1000 seats at 5.000? Someone with a better understanding of business economy than me could probably say. But if you could find the price that most RED users/owners could live with - and not only post houses and big production companies - my GUESS is you would probably get a higher revenue. I think they would have sold A LOT of seats if the price was around 10K for the software. You can run it on a $2.000 PC.

But I'm not trying to learn anyone how to run a business. Assimilate have people with brains, no doubt.

My answer to your first question is 1000 seats, because loyal customers breed more loyal customers, more ancillary services and products. Which means a longer term hold on the market. That seems like a big part of Red's strategy, I hope some of that rubs off on Assimilate.

IBloom

 

[M Most]

If Assimilate had a Scratch system that was affordable for the Final Cut Pro set, not only would every Red camera owner buy one. But every Red camera renter, or Redcode on Final Cut Pro editor would also buy it.

Just because Apple chooses to basically give away software doesn't mean that every other company should as well. Unlike Apple - which makes very high volume, relatively high profit hardware that is required to run what is essentially free software (at least relative to what it should cost) - software companies like Assimilate need to actually make money on the software product they sell. That is also why there is a yearly maintenance/support fee involved as well, as there is on just about all professional software other than Apple's.

Software that is "affordable for the Final Cut set" is basically limited to, well, Final Cut.

You can run it on a $2.000 PC.

That has no bearing on its actual value, nor does it account for the cost of R&D to develop it, and the continuing costs to the developer of maintaining, improving, advertising, and supporting it. That kind of thinking also leads to the conclusion that an editor is worth less if they're working on Final Cut than on an Avid Adrenaline. Or the notion that a cinematographer is worth less if they're shooting with a Red than if they're shooting film on a Panaflex. One has nothing to do with the other, except in terms of some peoples' perceptions.

 

[Greg M]

My answer to your first question is 1000 seats, because loyal customers breed more loyal customers, more ancillary services and products. Which means a longer term hold on the market. That seems like a big part of Red's strategy, I hope some of that rubs off on Assimilate.

IBloom

It also creates 20X more tech support calls.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

If they made Ferrari's for $30,000 they would sell more of them as well.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

...I hope Assimilate also steps up to another plate: creation of Digital Cinema packages for current digital theatrical projection directly from their conforming software. You want to make history... make that capability available to everyone that can afford to shoot with Red One and change the entire industry.

IBloom

Also RED should seriously think about how long would take time till competition will catch "the 4K RAW train".

It is about a couple of months that SI would get CF recording via Cineform development.

Also other 4K CMOS sensors that can be used for moving images acquisition could be or they are already available to buy on the market.

Time is running very fast and competition is not sleeping: ARRI, Panavision, Dalsa, Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Viper-Thompson, SI and a lot of small German digital camera makers, etc.

RED should VERY fast fix all that important steps with software workflow for a final output to film or digital otherwise all RED project would drop soon in a tricky and dangerous "muddy waters" of the competition.

Could be that high price of SCRATCH will "clogged" RED ambition to take over the 4K digital acquisition market????!!!

If they made Ferrari's for $30,000 they would sell more of them as well.

Only Enzo Ferrari was driving Ferrari over 250 km/h on the road while he did not have even a driving license.

But he was so famous guy that any Italian highway policeman was closing eyes on his speed driving.

That's about Ferrari and Scuderia Ferrari.

Ferrari is made just for specials (VIPs).

 

[C.H.Haskell]

Hey Mark...you got your hands a Scratch suite, are there any hang ups going from one system to the next? Would you find any benefit for having Scratch be mac based?

I am really excited about the Scratch and RED combo...just hoping apple color will hold me over in the meantime.

 

[Fredrik Harreschou]

If they made Ferrari's for $30,000 they would sell more of them as well.

Mark, first I would like to say that I truly respect you and how you contribute to the RED community. I try to read all your posts.

Re your comparison, I believe it is a very different business.

I agree with digitalfx in terms of having to set up a different kind of support system. That can cost money. It depends on the level of support of course. You get personal and very good support when you buy Scratch today. That wouldn't be possible if it was sub 10.000. But maybe they could sell you a premium support deal as a separate product?

But a Ferrari is a hand built car that take up to a 1000 man hours to finish (at least it used to be that way). A copy of a software has no "real" value. That must be a big difference for the sales strategy and potential income? I wasn't really paying attention in economy class, so I should probably shut up.

We have seen great fluctuation in software prices in the past. 3D software used to be quite expensive. I always thought that the market and "how many seats can we sell" set the price, in a way. Lets say a year ago there was a market worldwide to sell 500 SCRATCH-licenses. (Its just a number, I don't know). Two years later RED has sold 5000 cameras. Each owner is a possible buyer. Now if they had that market to work with when they priced their software, maybe the price could had been different.

Its just interesting theory to me, I am old enough to not cry if I don't get all the toys I want for Christmas.

Cheers,
Fredrik

 

[Fredrik Harreschou]

Just because Apple chooses to basically give away software doesn't mean that every other company should as well. Unlike Apple - which makes very high volume, relatively high profit hardware that is required to run what is essentially free software (at least relative to what it should cost) - software companies like Assimilate need to actually make money on the software product they sell. That is also why there is a yearly maintenance/support fee involved as well, as there is on just about all professional software other than Apple's.

Software that is "affordable for the Final Cut set" is basically limited to, well, Final Cut.




That has no bearing on its actual value, nor does it account for the cost of R&D to develop it, and the continuing costs to the developer of maintaining, improving, advertising, and supporting it. That kind of thinking also leads to the conclusion that an editor is worth less if they're working on Final Cut than on an Avid Adrenaline. Or the notion that a cinematographer is worth less if they're shooting with a Red than if they're shooting film on a Panaflex. One has nothing to do with the other, except in terms of some peoples' perceptions.

I totally agree with you, mmost. I'm fighting those opinions "every day" in my work. Many people probably think an Avid MC cuts better than Premiere, you know. My point was that its not expensive hardware. It wasn't long ago that all these high end post tools were SGI only and the hardware was really expensive and with support contracts as well. If the price of the hardware to run Scratch was $100.000 we wouldn't even be having this discussion, if you know what I mean.

It has no bearing on the actual value, but it says something about how inexpensive the package could be if they only sold enough licenses.

 

[Joel Kaye]

If they made Ferrari's for $30,000 they would sell more of them as well.

I think it's totally reasonable to sell fewer units and serve those customers well.

But part of the point here is RED decided it wasn't going to be like Ferrari.

They intentionally staked out a claim that they were trying to make a great camera that a lot of people could get their hands on. Partnering up with Apple makes a lot of sense. Partnering up with Assimilate was sorta weird in that they are PC based and serve the Ferrari market. So I think that's where some of the friction is coming from.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

I think it's totally reasonable to sell fewer units and serve those customers well.

But part of the point here is RED decided it wasn't going to be like Ferrari.

They intentionally staked out a claim that they were trying to make a great camera that a lot of people could get their hands on. Partnering up with Apple makes a lot of sense. Partnering up with Assimilate was sorta weird in that they are PC based and serve the Ferrari market. So I think that's where some of the friction is coming from.

That's also connected with Apple's slowness to develop 'promissed" solutions for RED at the present time and that how RED jumped in "Assimilate waters" and after RDCINE 1.0 BETA they have to jump out of it or people would switch soon on the upcoming competition systems.

Panta rhei, "all things flow" and 'Everything is in flux', like the constant flow of a river.
Heraclitus is known for his doctrine of change being central to the universe.

 

[donatello b]

"They intentionally staked out a claim that they were trying to make a great camera that a lot of people could get their hands on. Partnering up with Apple makes a lot of sense. Partnering up with Assimilate was sorta weird in that they are PC based and serve the Ferrari market. So I think that's where some of the friction is coming from"

RED partnering up with both makes great sense ...
you want affordable - use FCS2 , still lens etc ...
you want Ferrari - use Scratch , cooke S4's ... your choice ...

IMO the friction is coming from those that want the Ferrari at FCS2 prices ...

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

IMO the friction is coming from those that want the Ferrari at FCS2 prices ...

Take Mazda MX-5 Coupé Cabriolet and drive...

 

[Finner]

Just because Apple chooses to basically give away software doesn't mean that every other company should as well.

Sure apple programs are cheap compared to many others but don't fool yourself, apple is not "giving away" anything. If you start to crunch the numbers its easy to see that apple makes a lot of money on their software from pure volume.

 

[M Most]

Partnering up with Assimilate was sorta weird in that they are PC based and serve the Ferrari market.

Huh??
Scratch serves the "Ferrari" market? I guess you aren't particularly familiar with the market you're talking about. Assimilate serves, if anything, the "bargain" DI market. Some of its competition:

Nucoda Film Master @$160K+
Baselight @$180K+
Lustre @$160K+
DaVinci Resolve @$220K+

In fact, the only competitive product (and no, at this point in time I don't consider the previously mentioned, "free" Apple Color to be credible competition) that's priced anywhere near Scratch is Iridas' Speedgrade DI, which goes for about $50K, software only. So, I'm sorry, but if anything, Scratch targets the "Honda" market in the DI world.

A very reliable, very capable, performance laden, and very good value Honda, of course.

Now, if you want to infer that Scratch serves the industry - namely professional companies that offer DI services - as opposed to individual users, I would agree with that. That should also explain why it's not priced as a consumer product - because it isn't one. It's a professional product that offers professional features, performance, and support - as it should for the market it serves.

 

[M Most]

Sure apple programs are cheap compared to many others but don't fool yourself, apple is not "giving away" anything. If you start to crunch the numbers its easy to see that apple makes a lot of money on their software from pure volume.

They acquired a program that was selling (not in large numbers, but still..) for $20K, folded it into an existing $1000 package, and kept the price of the package the same. In my book, that's giving it away for free. I don't see any other way to describe it.

 

[Joel Kaye]

Huh??
Scratch serves the "Ferrari" market? I guess you aren't particularly familiar with the market you're talking about. Assimilate serves, if anything, the "bargain" DI market.

I see your point. But Ferraris aren't Bugati's. There's clearly a class above Scratch... which is why I didn't say Bugati in the first place.

Regardless, by your defintion the real point remains - the bargain DI market is still well out of the range of the target market the Jim originally intended RED to reach down into. RED has often bragged about how awesome the post workflow will be. Right now the workflow looks pretty slow unless you spend more money than the camera itself on some form of Scratch.

Now I don't have any problem with Assimilate at all. I'm not asking them to lower their price or do anything in particular. I'm not arguing that volume sales will help their company etc. I'm not concerned with their business strategy in the least. I'm sure they are a terrific company and I know they'll do just great.

I do care that RED does whatever it needs to do to encourage other software companies to provide alternative post solutions at a variety of prices. We RED owners will sort it out. But if RED's deal with Scratch could in any way prevent that then I would wonder if that deal may have been a less than optimal choice. I don't know. I don't have all the information needed to properly assess.

 

[SalaTar]

CineForm....WILL fill the void

 

[I Bloom]

I see your point. But Ferraris aren't Bugati's. There's clearly a class above Scratch... which is why I didn't say Bugati in the first place.

Regardless, by your defintion the real point remains - the bargain DI market is still well out of the range of the target market the Jim originally intended RED to reach down into. RED has often bragged about how awesome the post workflow will be. Right now the workflow looks pretty slow unless you spend more money than the camera itself on some form of Scratch.

Now I don't have any problem with Assimilate at all. I'm not asking them to lower their price or do anything in particular. I'm not arguing that volume sales will help their company etc. I'm not concerned with their business strategy in the least. I'm sure they are a terrific company and I know they'll do just great.

I do care that RED does whatever it needs to do to encourage other software companies to provide alternative post solutions at a variety of prices. We RED owners will sort it out. But if RED's deal with Scratch could in any way prevent that then I would wonder if that deal may have been a less than optimal choice. I don't know. I don't have all the information needed to properly assess.

I think you've hit the nail right on the head. Scratch is doing great. Assimilate has done awesome work on RedCine and it's just going to get better. I think they've won the hearts and minds of a lot of potential customers. But in the Red community there is clearly an itch that needs scratching. No pun intended.

A mechanic friend bored out the cylenders on his Honda when we were in college. It could have given a Ferrari a run for its money.

Ian

P.S. I was wondering why Assimilate chose that name for their product.:shifty:

 

[SalaTar]

Used to be Cyborg