ARRI/Zeiss Ultra Prime 8R T2.8 Test

[Evin Grant]

No one said it was gona be easy, just a hellva bang for the buck. And some Nikkors are much better than others. I don't know what lens you tested but if it was an AF prime then your assertion is right on. The AIS and especially the AI series are much better for focusing throw.

 

[Andrew M.]

Guys, no panic here. Steevo, you probably had it wide open. Step it up (whatever DOWN) to f8 and repeat the test. Don’t look on the chart with your eyes, just take long exposure picture of it with your still camera. Problem with these charts is the black background, so your eyes show everything more exaggerated. Remember our eyes work in logarithmic way. There is plenty of room in terms of focus once you are not wide open.
For outdoor will be sufficient, for indoor, hmmm… if you don’t want to spend $$.$$$ for renting the light then you spend some on renting the cine primes.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Still lens rework iris

Still lens rework iris

Thanks for testing them,

I think you are providing evidence of what I have been suggesting all along as far as sharpness (on some of the other threads).

As far as rehousing, Century has done quite a bit of that in the past but it has been very low volume so not that big of a priority for them. I have spoken to David Contreras there and put the bug in his ear a little bit. It might be worthwhile to go by their booth at NAB and show some interest. You can see their stuff at www.schneideroptics.com - it is pretty high priced but some indication of volume with the RED may induce lower pricing. Also they may be able to leave it in Canon mount but just rework iris? Use it on Birger EF mount?

A) How sharp these lenses really are when they are in focus.
B) how bad the focussing mechanism really is. I really think in order to use these lenses on cine cameras they are going to have to be re-housed, ala Panavision. There is way too much play when you change direction in order to follow focus something, and they really don't even hold focus from tele to wide.
I know a lot of folks are on the Nikon bandwagon, so I really don't wan't to offend anyone here I just think without having the luxury of auto, folks are going to have a hard time keeping focus during zooms or rack focussing.:sad:

 

[steevo435]

Thanks Aqua.
Andrew, and anyone else:sarcasm:
I'm not trying to create a panic, I'm trying to inform based on my experience, that's all.:innocent:
In MY experience, the lens is an important part in total system resolution. I doubt anyone would disagree with that. Therefore, it is important to test lenses independently of the rest of the imaging system.
If you plan to shoot everything at F8, just punch a whole in some black wrap and call it a day.
The charts that get projected are black vs. white. What can show flaws as well as resolving power, chromatic abb, barrel distortion, vignetting, spherical abbs, etc better than that? The lens projecter system is suppose to find flaws.
If my opinion is not welcome here because it's not the same as everyone else's, I'll go away.
By the way, the lens I looked at was a 18-200. I don't know whether this is considered a good or bad lens because I don't come from a still background, it's what was available to me yesterday.

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=5&productNr=2159

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

I collected very different still lens brands or the most famous world's lens brands that are all able to get in NIKON F mount. And just waiting for the RED ONE. After the RED ONE tests I should know what are the best still lens options for a cinema like shooting. But I should wait until September/October. OK. Keep cool.

Attractive lens set of Nikkor F, Zeiss ZF, Sigma Nikon F mount,
Leica VISO M/Nikon F adapter, Schneider-Kreuznach M42/Nikon f adapter,
Cooke Panchro for M42 adapted/Nikon F adapter and Hasselblad/Zeiss/Nikon F.

++Primes:
14mm = Sigma AF/MF 14mm f/1:3.5 Multi Coated
24mm = Nikkor-N A 24mm f/1:2.8
28mm = Nikkor AI-S 28mm f/1:2.8
35mm = Nikkor AI 35mm f/1:1.4
50mm = Carl Zeiss Planar T* 50mm ZF f/1:1.4
50mm = Nikkor AF 50mm f/1:1.8 D
55mm = Nikkor-R-Micro AI 55mm f/1:3.5 + Auto Extension Ring PK 13
65mm = Leica Elmar 65mm f/1:3.5 Leica-VISO to Nikon F adapter
75mm = Cooke Speed Panchro 75mm f/2, T/2.3 adapted to M42/Nikon F adapter
80mm = Hasselblad - Carl Zeiss Planar T* 80mm f/1:2.8 to Nikon F adapter
85mm = Nikkor AF 85mm f/1:1.8 D
90mm = Leica Summicron 90mm f/1:2.0 Leica-VISO to Nikon F adapter
105mm = Nikkor AI-S 105mm f/1:2.5
135mm = Nikkor-Q A 135mm f/1:2.8
135mm = Schneider-Kreuznach Tele-Xenar 135mm f/1:3.5 M42/Nikon F adapter
180mm = Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar Olympia 180mm f/1:2.8 Nikon F
200mm = Leica Telyt 200mm f/1:4.5 Leica-VISO to Nikon F adapter
500mm = Carl Zeiss Jena Fernobjektiv 500mm f/1:8.0 M42/Nikon F adapter

++Zooms:
17-35mm = Nikkor AF 17-35mm f/1:2.8 D ED
35-80mm = Nikkor AF 35-80mm f/1:4.0-5.6 D
70-210mm = Nikkor AF 70-210mm f/1:4.0-5.6
100-300mm = Soligor Nikon/F 100-300mm f/1:5.0

 

[Mike the beginner]

:blush:

Thanks Aqua.
Andrew, and anyone else:sarcasm:
I'm not trying to create a panic, I'm trying to inform based on my experience, that's all.:innocent:
In MY experience, the lens is an important part in total system resolution. I doubt anyone would disagree with that. Therefore, it is important to test lenses independently of the rest of the imaging system.
If you plan to shoot everything at F8, just punch a whole in some black wrap and call it a day.
The charts that get projected are black vs. white. What can show flaws as well as resolving power, chromatic abb, barrel distortion, vignetting, spherical abbs, etc better than that? The lens projecter system is suppose to find flaws.
If my opinion is not welcome here because it's not the same as everyone else's, I'll go away.
By the way, the lens I looked at was a 18-200. I don't know whether this is considered a good or bad lens because I don't come from a still background, it's what was available to me yesterday.

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=5&productNr=2159

Thanks everyone for the great feedback, very much appreciated.

Steevo, i think others are just voicing what they have found etc. Your points are just as valid. I think you are right to mention it, why, because right now it is a real concern. After NAB it might not be such a big concern though who knows. Lets keep things friendly and relaxing whilst we wait for NAB and what follows. We all enjoy each others feedback and we learn from it all the time. This is a great forum with a great group of people.

Truth is we really will not know for certain until we test with the red camera all the various options with a variety of lenses. Guys like Evan are very experienced still photographers in their own right. it is always wise to listen to what they say and see if it will apply in cine use. I am positive (based on what i have read) that there will be a number of top quality still lens that will be perfectly sharp for use with the red camera. Many guys here tend to think the same. I think we all have concerns about the focusing issue. But if we try and "kick out the trash and keep the gold" as far as selecting only the still lenses that are known to perform extremely well in their own right throughout their range, we can THEN look to examine the workarounds with those selected lenses. I know a lot of my work will be done somewhere btween f5.6 to f8. Other work will require different settings.

The engineer in me thinks that it must be possible to fit a combination of focus rings or replacing the existing focus rings to one's that make the focusing turn exactly like cine lenses. Judging by some comments focusing with cine lens at 4k is going to be difficult as well. Someone is likely to find a great solution that would maybe double the price of the still lenses once modified, but you then have a cracking lens possibly even with greater movement on the focusing rings who knows. Perhaps some of the technical lens guys can comment. I think the great thing that Evin, Andrew (and others) are doing is they are selecting the really good still lenses. What would be the point of selecting the ones that have breathing or aberations etc. I noted that even experienced cine guys like Stephen Williams has commented that a lot of the cine lenses have problems. The best cine lenses do cost a lot and some of us here on this forum strongly believe that a large part of the reason for the high price is down to numbers made for the effort to make them etc. That does not mean they are not made better and more effort and care does not go into them etc etc. It just states that due to numbers sold, the profit has to be higher. Just imagine if 500 reservation holders decided to put their faith in a particular still lens nominated for a modification. Would a third party not be willing to step in and declare to do the mod for half what he would normaly charge....i bet he would.

Last night i looked through some of the posts last year about red and still lenses. I think Evin has already stated (sorry if i am wrong Evin) that if we can get to 90% of the level and quality of a good cine lens for a fraction of the cost he would be very happy and so would many others. Jim Jannard commented a while back that Cook made great lenses, they will make lenses nearly as good but for much less. In the end it will be down to your willingnness to accept a little loss for a huge saving or as J Jannard put it so nicely...how much pain your pocket can stand to the amount of gain you get, Or something like that (sorry Jim if a got that wrong).

I doubt Canon with their $25,000 b4 HD lenses are going to make still lenses every bit as good to use in cine mode as cine lenses, that might affect their profit. So it might boil down to third party individuals to do the mod for us.

My posts areway toooo long sorry

Mike the beginner

 

[Andrew M.]

Res charts pictures for UPR8 and cushion distortions

Res charts pictures for UPR8 and cushion distortions

Here are two pictures of charts taken during the UP8R test.
The one on the middle is for f2.8 and one in the left is for f5.6
This chart section is located on the far right of the test chart near the S35 frame outlines in section E

Also to show how straight line are kept straight on these ultra wide lenses, the zoom out picture of the chart to show the cushion distortions at 117 deg field of view (far right line on the chart).

 

[steevo435]

Thanks for posting the projector pics, Andrew. This is the same chart I prefer on my projector. I hate to say, but that is pretty damn good for a wide angle, especially at the edge of S35. That level of color fringing will be really hard to spot in a recorded image.

 

[Andrew M.]

Steevo, maybe you will not see it right straight as a fringing but look on the marina picture above.
Left side boats have pink sun reflections, boats and whole picture except the center is soft.
Also of focus items will not look nice, kind of winter freez splatter. See below.
The best off focus background should look like looking through the fog not like water based aquarelle. Now imagine you take wide shoot of the busy street in the sun or ocean/lake with sparkling surface of the water. Believe me it will look ugly.

Now for post it will be much more difficult to work as oppose to the 200Lp/mm sharp lenses, like MP65mm
I don’t even want to speculate about quality of green screen keying.
There are ways around it, but it will take much more time to do it and time is money.

Sure for HDTV it is just right for time being.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

What's the general price range of the Ultra Prime 8R?

 

[Mark K.]

Andrew, do you own an ARRI D20?! :w00t: And is that Monte Carlo in those sample photos (could explain things :shifty: )

 

[Michael Hastings]

What's the general price range of the Ultra Prime 8R?

Andrae:

Ken Corben bought one earlier this year at about a 5% discount for a little over $28000. Price may have changed a little with the drop in Euro.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Andrew, do you own an ARRI D20?! :w00t: And is that Monte Carlo in those sample photos (could explain things :shifty: )

No! I'm just a poor cinematographer... window shopping. :shifty:

Andrae:

Ken Corben bought one earlier this year at about a 5% discount for a little over $28000. Price may have changed a little with the drop in Euro.

Thanks for the info.