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Arri Rumor

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Phil Jordan

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I just talked to a friend who was at a special private presentation at Plus Camerimage Lodz 2009 and was told that Arri showed a new 4K prototype called the D27 that obsoletes the three cameras they will release this summer. The D27 is supposed to be released end of this year. He also said that Arri will lower the price of the 2K cameras for summer to try to move them out before the announcement of the 4K camera in September. These are the things that make me happy to be a Red customer.
 
that's really interesting. I'd like to see some more validity to the story and if they are indeed lowering the prices of the 2ks, that's good news, however, considering the price of a D-21 is 170k for the body only, it's a safe bet to say Arri considers "lowering their prices" a relative idea. I sure would like a red priced D-21 though
 
Phil Jordan said:
I just talked to a friend who was at a special private presentation at Plus Camerimage Lodz 2009 and was told that Arri showed a new 4K prototype called the D27 that obsoletes the three cameras they will release this summer. The D27 is supposed to be released end of this year. He also said that Arri will lower the price of the 2K cameras for summer to try to move them out before the announcement of the 4K camera in September. These are the things that make me happy to be a Red customer.
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Hahahahaha obsoleting cameras before they even come out, cmon Phil, how does this make sense to you, I mean really, think about this.
 
Certainly an interesting rumor... but we will never make an S35 1080P output camera (or 2K). The world is moving to 4K delivery and up-rezzing from even 2K is a 4X resolution jump. I didn't understand the 2K output cameras from Arri so this is probably good news for them in the long run.

Jim
 
If it helps anyone with credibility Panther and Panavision were there.
 
If the price goes lower for the 2K cameras at least you will know why. Seems like F23 then F35?
 
Your job for Arri is marketing, right Michael?
 
I have a feeling that they haven't told Michael yet. ;)

I remember seeing the Arri prototype shoot 1000asa images a few months ago and thought perhaps that they were onto something, but now that the MX sensor has shown to produce usable ISO 4000 images, what does Arri have to offer again? I forgot.

It feels like Arri is trying to play catchup for the first time in their history, and it is looking like a bit of a train-wreck from where I am sitting.

But hey,

They always have matteboxes to fall back on.
 
4K Bayer RAW?

Even if that was true, they would still be shooting at a target that passed by a long time ago. 4K finish is the new goal, not 4K acquisition.
 
Arri is a great company. I have been a fan for several decades. They'll figure it out.

Jim
 
EPIC's 5K bayer is a true 4K finish. RED has acknowledged that 4K is a true 3.2K finish with Graeme's secret debayer. Why Arri would make so many mistakes in a row is mind-boggling. I know Jim is a fan but who they were is not who they are.
 
Remember that the announced ARRI cameras were not 2K RAW, they were 3.5K RAW, which is optimal for a 2K finish. Even the current D21 is 2.8K RAW, not 2K RAW.

So given that the upcoming ARRI's are 3.5K RAW, what credibility is a rumor that they will be replaced immediately by a 4K RAW camera? What's the point of jumping from 3.5K to 4K?

If -- a big if -- the picture quality, speed, and dynamic range turn out to be superior to the competition, a lot of people are going to be fine with a 3.5K RAW camera... Anyone who dismisses ARRI is being darn foolish. I'm not even sure what the "so many mistakes in a row" comment is even referring to.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Remember that the announced ARRI cameras were not 2K RAW, they were 3.5K RAW, which is optimal for a 2K finish. Even the current D21 is 2.8K RAW, not 2K RAW.

So given that the upcoming ARRI's are 3.5K RAW, what credibility is a rumor that they will be replaced immediately by a 4K RAW camera? What's the point of jumping from 3.5K to 4K?
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Good question. What is the point? The info is either true or it is not. My friend works for a company that was there. So assuming it was true what exactly is Arri doing obsoleting their 2K finish cameras with 3K finish cameras? You tell me. Why did they announce 2K finish cameras in the 1st place? It seems like mistake after mistake to me. Please explain it to us so it does make sense starting with why they announced 3 new models of 2K finish cameras.
 
Absolutely. David is right.

And Jim's acknowledgement that Arri "will figure it out" is both a tribute to Arri and and to his own sportsmanlike humility -- and if I might echo David, perhaps the most significant sign of all that those who dismissed, and the few who still dismiss Red, are also being darn foolish.
 
IMO the rumor only makes sense if they are jumping to, say, a 6K Bayer RAW sensor, which we have to expect they will do eventually.

If the rumor is true, it's certainly no surprise, since this is the clear direction things are headed.
 
The humor is that Arri is going to sell unsuspecting customers 2K finish cameras this summer then announce a 3K finish camera in September! What then they announce a 6K camera? Come on.
 
Phil Jordan said:
Good question. What is the point? The info is either true or it is not. My friend works for a company that was there. So assuming it was true what exactly is Arri doing obsoleting their 2K finish cameras with 3K finish cameras? You tell me. Why did they announce 2K finish cameras in the 1st place?
Click to expand...

Because 90% of all features are finished to 2K, and the highest any TV show goes is 1.9K (1080P), that's why.

It just doesn't make any sense to roll out 3.5K cameras only to replace them few months later with a 4K camera. Maybe a 5K camera later as an alternate - the market can support more than one resolution for cameras after all. Plenty of projects are going to finish to 2K and 1080P for years to come, whether or not one believes it's a good idea, that's not the point. The point is that the market exists for cameras that deliver a high-quality 2K finish, whether or not there is also a market for higher resolutions. I'll remind everyone here that this movie "Avatar" which is about to earn a billion dollars and everyone here is raving about was shot in 1080P HD. And if 3D really takes off over the next few years, you can bet a lot of them will be HD and 2K productions.

If ARRI comes out with three 3.5K RAW cameras, it doesn't mean they can't later offer another model with even more resolution.

And almost no one finishes in 3K.

I don't get the point of spreading this rumor.
 
It is a good thing that Arri is acknowledging that selling a 2K camera is a mistake but they should have just announced a 4K camera in the 1st place. The 2Kish cameras put them in a difficult position. Do they still release them? They should skip the new ones and go straight for the 4k.
 
David I have a lot of respect for you but I think you are missing the point here. If the future is 4K delivery then why shoot 1080P or 2k finish? When the studios decide to re-release 4K they can only look to their library of film or Red so far. Uprezzing from 1080P or 2K won't work. Red sees this and is releasing Epic for a true 4K delivery. Also I don't quite get why Arri would try to sell the industry a 2K finish camera knowing it has a 3K finish camera right around the corner.
 
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