ARRI Christmas LUT

[John Schick]

Hi John,

How does your Red to Arri preview LUT look with the new helium sensor?

Cheers

Craig Lees
UK

Hey, basically the LUT is using REDWideGamutRGB as a starting point, which is a common colorspace across all camera models. Obviously, each sensor will have subtle differences, but nothing a little grading can't balance out.

 

[Nawaf Alsabhan]

Hey, basically the LUT is using REDWideGamutRGB as a starting point, which is a common colorspace across all camera models. Obviously, each sensor will have subtle differences, but nothing a little grading can't balance out.

Great work John! I purchased the new LUT, and can't wait to try it out!
I love that you also adjusted the out of gamut colors too!

 

[Craig Lees]

Hey, basically the LUT is using REDWideGamutRGB as a starting point, which is a common colorspace across all camera models. Obviously, each sensor will have subtle differences, but nothing a little grading can't balance out.

Hi John.

Ok great thanks. I set my Epic-W to 1600iso to give me a bit more highlight retention. Will that make a difference to the imagery? Is there a beta watermarked version to play around with?

Cheers

Craig Lees
UK

 

[Craig Lees]

Hey, basically the LUT is using REDWideGamutRGB as a starting point, which is a common colorspace across all camera models. Obviously, each sensor will have subtle differences, but nothing a little grading can't balance out.

Hi John.

Ok great thanks. I set my Epic-W to 1600iso to give me a bit more highlight retention. Will that make a difference to the imagery? Is there a beta watermarked version to play around with?

Cheers

Craig Lees
UK

 

[John Schick]

Hi John.

Ok great thanks. I set my Epic-W to 1600iso to give me a bit more highlight retention. Will that make a difference to the imagery? Is there a beta watermarked version to play around with?

Cheers

Craig Lees
UK

Hey, the LUT also has a +1 stop correction to more closely match the Alexa at equivalent ISO settings, so you might not need to increase the ISO. I don't currently have a watermark solution, but I could show you the result on a provided .r3d snapshot.

 

[Craig Lees]

Hi John.

Thanks for your replies.

That sounds good thanks. I think I might just buy it.

If I turn exposure from 1.0 to zero (if it is a measure of stops of course) I would rather do that as the higher the ISO, the better the highlight retention on Helium (which really helps), I even rate it at iso2500 often which helps even more, ISO3200 when delivering for HD too with lowlight OLPF (I have a set of anamorphic lenses which only get sharp at T4 so higher ISO really helps).

Can you tell me how the exposure setting my relates to RED helium brightness stops?

Thanks!

Craig Lees
UK

 

[John Schick]

Hey Craig, not sure if this answers your question, but with the exposure increase and the LogC output format, the LUT gives you slightly more highlight rolloff compared to the default settings - though your shadows are also lifted a little as well.

Rating the sensor at a higher ISO works great, as long as you’re happy with the noise levels. The low-light OLPF handles that very well.

 

[Craig Melville]

Thanks Anton for creating this LUT. Really liking it so far on my initial tests. One question on the post side of this workflow: I notice when I open the .r3d files in Resolve or Redcine X, the color space and Gamma Curve set themselves to DragonColour2 and RedGamma4. This is despite the fact the camera was set to RedWideGamutRGB and Log3g10 when the clips were shot. Is there something I should be doing with the camera's settings to make those settings come across automatically? ISO, Kelvin, tint, FLUT etc all seem to come across but not the Color Space and Gamma Curve. Is there something I'm doing wrong here or is this normal behaviour for the software?

(FYI I'm running the lastest firmware on camera and latest software updates for Resolve and Redcine X.)

Thanks!

Craig

 

[Craig Melville]

Also just to clarify my above question, I know I can set the color space and Gamma curve manually, just would be more intuitive workflow if the software recognised the camera settings. I also notice the same behaviour in RedCine X - it doesn't recognise automatically that the camera was shooting with this new gamma and color space. This could be quite confusing to and editor or colorist - they could make incorrect assumptions about the way the DP expected the shots to appear.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Thanks Anton for creating this LUT. Really liking it so far on my initial tests. One question on the post side of this workflow: I notice when I open the .r3d files in Resolve or Redcine X, the color space and Gamma Curve set themselves to DragonColour2 and RedGamma4. This is despite the fact the camera was set to RedWideGamutRGB and Log3g10 when the clips were shot.

I'm guessing that the RMDs are not being read correctly in current software. As long as you can change it manually, I'm not sure I see a problem. It is one more thing to check. I would bet that as the Red SDK is changed and improved, we'll see these modes automatically popping up.

I typically won't use DragonColor2 as a starting point for correction if it comes up in the original files, simply because we run into out-of-gamut problems on occasion. I'm happier with the original DragonColor. For most of the projects I deal with (and I think most indie projects qualify), we have to worry more about Rec709 and P3 color space, not anything wider than that. I don't dispute that the industry will need to worry about wider gamut and HDR at some point, but the reality is that we're still years away from this being an issue for non-studio films and TV series. I also wouldn't worry about it until you have a BT2100 or Dolby Vision-capable calibrated display.

 

[Craig Lees]

Great cheers John. Will buy next week when back in the UK.

Cheers,

Craig Lees
UK

 

[Craig Melville]

I'm guessing that the RMDs are not being read correctly in current software. As long as you can change it manually, I'm not sure I see a problem. It is one more thing to check. I would bet that as the Red SDK is changed and improved, we'll see these modes automatically popping up.

I typically won't use DragonColor2 as a starting point for correction if it comes up in the original files, simply because we run into out-of-gamut problems on occasion. I'm happier with the original DragonColor. For most of the projects I deal with (and I think most indie projects qualify), we have to worry more about Rec709 and P3 color space, not anything wider than that. I don't dispute that the industry will need to worry about wider gamut and HDR at some point, but the reality is that we're still years away from this being an issue for non-studio films and TV series. I also wouldn't worry about it until you have a BT2100 or Dolby Vision-capable calibrated display.

Thanks Marc,

Agree it's not a deal-breaker but it would be nice if the software was able to read the metadata correctly (assuming it's actually been recorded correctly in the file.) As you say a software update might hopefully fix that issue. Early days I guess...

Also to clarify, Anton's LUT seems to rely on RWG / Log3g10 combo to have the correct effect - even if we're only ending up with a REC 709 output in the end. If we set the clips as you suggest and use this LUT the end result is very contrasty compared to what we see on the cameras monitor.

Perhaps there's other issues with this new settings I'm yet to uncover. I'll do some more tests and find out.

Thanks!

Craig

 

[Anton Esteban]

Hi Craig, just to clarify, my LUT was designed for RWG and LOG 3G10.

 

[Craig Melville]

Thanks Anton, my bad.

I was actually using RWG and Log3g10. Just typed the wrong thing.

I've corrected my message above to avoid confusion.

Craig

 

[Craig Melville]

Thanks Anton for creating this LUT. Really liking it so far on my initial tests. One question on the post side of this workflow: I notice when I open the .r3d files in Resolve or Redcine X, the color space and Gamma Curve set themselves to DragonColour2 and RedGamma4. This is despite the fact the camera was set to RedWideGamutRGB and Log3g10 when the clips were shot. Is there something I should be doing with the camera's settings to make those settings come across automatically? ISO, Kelvin, tint, FLUT etc all seem to come across but not the Color Cpace and Gamma Curve. Is there something I'm doing wrong here or is this normal behaviour for the software?

(FYI I'm running the lastest firmware on camera and latest software updates for Resolve and Redcine X.)

Thanks!

Craig

Update:

I figured out this issue I'm describing above appears to be an issue with the way the camera writes the metadata to the file not the Resolve or RedCine X software. I can prove this because in Premiere I can open up the .R3d file, selecte the color space and gamma curve we actually shot with then click "save to RMD".

When I open the file in Resolve or RedCine X the correct settings are there when I look at "Decode using Camera Metadata". So it must the Epic not recording the metadata correctly. I'll report it as a bug.

 

[John Schick]

Hi John.

Ok great thanks. I set my Epic-W to 1600iso to give me a bit more highlight retention. Will that make a difference to the imagery? Is there a beta watermarked version to play around with?

Cheers

Craig Lees
UK

Just wanted to give you an update - I ended up getting an online web demo put together for the RED to Alexa LUTs:
http://truecolor.us/products/red-to-alexa-lut-demo/

The quality of the browser plugin is poor, but it should give you a general idea on how the LUTs affect the image. It is also possible to upload your own test images as well (input needs to be REDWideGamutRGB / REDlogFilm).

 

[Kenneth C Merrill]

Just wanted to give you an update - I ended up getting an online web demo put together for the RED to Alexa LUTs:
http://truecolor.us/products/red-to-alexa-lut-demo/

The quality of the browser plugin is poor, but it should give you a general idea on how the LUTs affect the image. It is also possible to upload your own test images as well (input needs to be REDWideGamutRGB / REDlogFilm).

This is amazing. Just goes to show that the image is there; you just need to know how to get it out. Amazing how much better your test footage looks with the Alexa LUT applied.

 

[Kenneth C Merrill]

Just wanted to give you an update - I ended up getting an online web demo put together for the RED to Alexa LUTs:
http://truecolor.us/products/red-to-alexa-lut-demo/

The quality of the browser plugin is poor, but it should give you a general idea on how the LUTs affect the image. It is also possible to upload your own test images as well (input needs to be REDWideGamutRGB / REDlogFilm).

John is this LUT designed for Dragon footage? I'm a Helium owner, and I'm curious how compatible it will be.

 

[John Schick]

John is this LUT designed for Dragon footage? I'm a Helium owner, and I'm curious how compatible it will be.

Hey, because REDWideGamutRGB is a standardized colorspace option, the transform works for all camera models. Of course, there are slight differences between the various sensors, but those differences can easily be corrected in the grade.

 

[Kenneth C Merrill]

Hey, because REDWideGamutRGB is a standardized colorspace option, the transform works for all camera models. Of course, there are slight differences between the various sensors, but those differences can easily be corrected in the grade.

Thank you for the info!