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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Arri Alexa and Mysterium-X...

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Rob Ruffo said:
Film is not freeform tie-dying
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ROTFLMFAO!!!

Not that I agree, or disagree, just loved the sentence. Thank you for the laugh.

Graeme Nattress said:
and 3200 if you've judged the noise to be ok through your post workflow - which it could very well be if handled with care (and I don't necessarily mean a post NR applied).

Graeme
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I wonder how 3200 looks now with the added 1/4 stop.
 
David Rasberry said:
I watched (more slept through) Heaven's Gate on IFC the other night. Four hours of absolutely lovely and lovingly crafted cinematography that might have been a decent drama in half that time if it had any sense of pace and connection to the story. It was like Cimino was a 1st time amateur who couldn't bear to cut a single foot out of his imagery. Boring in the extreme. Beautiful photography that serves and moves the drama is much more interesting.
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Wait, do you mean Mallick on 'The New Wolrd'?

(ducks before Tom shows up) :emote_couch:
 
Rob Ruffo said:
I'll be my usual rude self and say I find these kinds of hippie-style comments, in a tech forum, massively irritating. We are here to learn about tech, and saying that tech is basically irrelevant has no educational value. Film is not freeform tie-dying and tam-tam playing coming from the Id. It is rooted in many tech and financial considerations - lots of hard maths - and woe be your producer and financing if you do not keep close tabs on these. Are you, by your comment, saying that we should just go "with our passion" when choosing between two 30K-400K investment options without any technical research first? Do you suggest tea-leaves or tarot cards as a better method than the in-detail discussions here?
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In seriousness, I think you misread my comment, Rob. Notice before my "rant," I said, "Michael and Graeme discussing what the new world of digital sensor technology means and how it fits into technical lexicography paradigms is something I would love to see more of!!!"

Of course good technical discussion is relevant and necessary. But framing it terms of a "cameraA vs. cameraB" discussion I believe is pointless and damaging to the community. Look at the recent Camera Assessment Series. Whatever was learned there was far overshadowed by the hostility and bickering it generated between many different parties. Good on RED for reaching out proactively to the ASC on RED Day in January to right some of those wrongs.

And that is just the latest. I honestly can't count the number of "shootouts" I've seen or been somehow involved with. And none of them end well.

Michael and Graeme discussing (strongly sometimes) what ISO means, and how it is relevant is fantastic and edifying. Putting it in terms of Arri vs. RED just sucks and ultimately doesn't do RED or Arri any good.

Lucas

P.S.: http://www.blockbuster.com/browse/catalog/movieDetails/266843
 

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I am going to paint my gl2 this colour and take a picture of it with my scarlet when i get it . I like the tech talk and the hippy talk can't we all just get along.Its like the person who was raised by a hockey player and a hippy (in different households ) we are all one big happy family untill someone touches the puck. Anyway to much hippy talk here is a formula to balance it out F=ma
 
Lucas Wilson said:
In seriousness, I think you misread my comment, Rob. Notice before my "rant," I said, "Michael and Graeme discussing what the new world of digital sensor technology means and how it fits into technical lexicography paradigms is something I would love to see more of!!!"

Of course good technical discussion is relevant and necessary. But framing it terms of a "cameraA vs. cameraB" discussion I believe is pointless and damaging to the community. Look at the recent Camera Assessment Series. Whatever was learned there was far overshadowed by the hostility and bickering it generated between many different parties. Good on RED for reaching out proactively to the ASC on RED Day in January to right some of those wrongs.

And that is just the latest. I honestly can't count the number of "shootouts" I've seen or been somehow involved with. And none of them end well.

Michael and Graeme discussing (strongly sometimes) what ISO means, and how it is relevant is fantastic and edifying. Putting it in terms of Arri vs. RED just sucks and ultimately doesn't do RED or Arri any good.

Lucas

P.S.: http://www.blockbuster.com/browse/catalog/movieDetails/266843
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I see your point. Sorry for undeserved flaming from me. I stand behind my statement however, to all those who say things like "Stop counting pixels! Go out and shoot something!" Of course I shoot things, as do others in thsi forum, but we want to do so with good tools and without wasting 100K on equipment when just as good is available for far less.

That said, I think it is very important to do shoot-outs, as however flawed they may be, they do teach us something. It's easy to buy or borrow a 5D and see what it is about first-hand, but it is less easy and far less cheap to get direct access to an Arris or Genesis for testing - in the case of some equipment sold only over the Internet, the only way to try it is to buy it - which is why any tests, no matter how flawed, do result in some useful and much-needed info.
 
Michael Bravin said:
Bob

Hey, if Lucas wants to make Graeme and I sharing ideas into a lovefest, don't bring down his buzz brotha :-)

Aside from personal feelings I think it would be hard to support the argument that the success of a motion picture has any direct relationship to which camera, lens, filmstock or sensor was used in the production. Blair Witch Project and Paranormal Activity both made a ton of money, Days of Heaven, and What Dreams May Come (both very beautifully crafted works of art) not so much.

While I absolutely do not disagree with your sentiment about quality and I personally prefer beautifully photographed movies, (it's a personal preference shared by many) but it is by no means a formula for success, or a guide for the future of movie making.
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Producers who like to keep their wallets closed always talk to me about Blair Witch. Blair Witch has a concept that is HINGED on the use of amateur video tools by the characters. There are a limited number of stories that would lend themselves to this kind of justification for low production value. Paranormal Activity, again, has a concept tied directly to the type of low-end look it has.

Now imagine Titanic shot like Blair Witch. You are naive indeed if you believe that B.O. would be as high because of how good the story was.

TV too. Many shows sell in part because they look nice, and many British and Canadian shows shot with little money struggle in large part because of how drab they look. Even on PBS - Imagine Rick Steve's Europe shot on a 5D with rippling moire and lots of extra macroblocking over what the cable compression already suffers. I'm not sure that panoramic view of Prague would be as fun to watch, and I don't think that's just me.

What we do as cinematographers is appreciated by large segments of the market. We are a key component of why people turn up at the movies and the home TV screen.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
Producers who like to keep their wallets closed always talk to me about Blair Witch. Blair Witch has a concept that is HINGED on the use of amateur video tools by the characters. There are a limited number of stories that would lend themselves to this kind of justification for low production value. Paranormal Activity, again, has a concept tied directly to the type of low-end look it has.

Now imagine Titanic shot like Blair Witch. You are naive indeed if you believe that B.O. would be as high because of how good the story was.

TV too. Many shows sell in part because they look nice, and many British and Canadian shows shot with little money struggle in large part because of how drab they look. Even on PBS - Imagine Rick Steve's Europe shot on a 5D with rippling moire and lots of extra macroblocking over what the cable compression already suffers. I'm not sure that panoramic view of Prague would be as fun to watch, and I don't think that's just me.

What we do as cinematographers is appreciated by large segments of the market. We are a key component of why people turn up at the movies and the home TV screen.
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Well said. High quality cinematography may not always be fully appreciated by an audience, but its absence will send them elsewhere if it detracts from the program.
 
David Rasberry said:
Well said. High quality cinematography may not always be fully appreciated by an audience, but its absence will send them elsewhere if it detracts from the program.
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I think movies are like restaurants.

The food is the content (script/acting) and the decor is the cinematography.

Some people will put up will mediocre food if the ambiance is really special (ever been to a seaside table in Cannes, or any panoramic view restaurant?) and some people care only about the food and are willing to go somewhere very dingy to get it (ever been to Shwartz's Smoked Meat in Montreal, or to some of the famous cheese-steak places in Philly?). Some food types (simple, "down home") lend themselves more to high ugly decor tolerance than others. (Sushi is just not sexy when served in a dive.)

However, if you have great ambiance AND great food, expect line-ups year-round.
 
What are the arguments for Alexa over Epic? I was asked about Alexa by someone that seems to think anything Red is a bad idea, but I got no specifics. I don't get it.

Did they announce higher DR? Are people simply expecting higher DR because of a later development start (newer tech)? Are some people are expecting Red One body related issues to remain with the second Red generation? Or is it just the familiar and reliable Arri name?

I for one have blind faith in Red's second generation, and say so even at the risk of being labeled a fan-boy. But I should disclaim my logic: Jim knows he needs absolute reliability this time around or people will never accept Red into the big leagues. (Even if his trading card already requires smaller font to fit his stats/specs).
 
Rob Ruffo said:
I think movies are like restaurants.

The food is the content (script/acting) and the decor is the cinematography.

Some people will put up will mediocre food if the ambiance is really special (ever been to a seaside table in Cannes, or any panoramic view restaurant?) and some people care only about the food and are willing to go somewhere very dingy to get it (ever been to Shwartz's Smoked Meat in Montreal, or to some of the famous cheese-steak places in Philly?). Some food types (simple, "down home") lend themselves more to high ugly decor tolerance than others. (Sushi is just not sexy when served in a dive.)

However, if you have great ambiance AND great food, expect line-ups year-round.
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Personally I disagree here - I don't think its possible to separate the pieces of a film in that fashion. I don't believe that the photography of a movie is merely presentation - for starters it is the only thing that separates movies from theater and makes film a distinct art. And the photography effects peoples emotions just as strongly as the acting and story, I think. When a movie is done correctly they all influence and blend into each other. Lighting and composition effect people much more than we give them credit for -they just dont know how to articulate it. Thats my feeling anyway.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
What are the arguments for Alexa over Epic? I was asked about Alexa by someone that seems to think anything Red is a bad idea, but I got no specifics. I don't get it.
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Some people have said they like the Alexa color better. And probably
would be the only reason to go with Arri...as Red seems to have set some
very highbars in terms of numbers..ie. resolution and price.
 
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Steve Das said:
Some people have said they like the Alexa color better. And probably
would be the only reason to go with Arri...as Red seems to have set some
very highbars in terms of numbers..ie. resolution and price.
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As I mention before ARRI with Alexa is going to TURN people's attention on its image (film stocks) look and post workflow because it can't compete with M-X (RED and Epic) high resolution.

ARRI with ARRISCAN technology has a long DI experience to deal with film scans and stock looks.

Recently ARRI acquired CinnaFilm and Pixels Strings to develop its ARRI Relativity software.

As I also mentioned before RED DC should ASAP develop something in a similar way just to compete with ARRI at the same level.

At the professional (elite) stage the high ISO 800 and 13.5 stops DR are amazing achievements but still not enough to fight competition like ARRI, Panavision and Sony.

This NAB will show that the image look is a "key paradigm" of new digital revolution.

Or if you can't offer a diverse film stocks look (LUTs) almost out of the box from a digital camera than you should be soon out of the game.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
This NAB will show that the image look is a "key paradigm" of new digital revolution.
Or if you can't offer a diverse film stocks look (LUTs) almost out of the box from a digital camera than you should be soon out of the game.
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Agreed..great post above..yes...ease and speed of getting a look will
be big factor especially in Hollywood films as they have such tight
post schedules and strict release times.

For Indies of course time is not much an issue..cost is always the one.
 
We agree with you and have something for you at NAB Tropicana...

Jim
 
Just a quick note here for the record, neither our company nor our technology (Pixel Strings) were acquired perse by ARRI, they are in fact our reseller and the software works its GPU magic brilliantly on any image source (film scans to heritage video). Looking forward to NAB...
 
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