Arming my Scarlet out from a C-Stand?

[Arnold F.]

I want to shoot talent lying down in the sand at the beach and would like to be overhead. We can't use a jib in this instance, unfortunately. I'm wondering it it's safe and practical to do so from a C-Stand and what grip gear might help me do that.

 

[Glen Powell]

Will a 'Ladder-pod' work? Hi-Hat clamped to the top step (or any step) of a stepladder…

 

[Arnold F.]

That was my first thought but we need to be directly over talent and the time of day (sun position) and the action might mean a hi-hat on a ladder won't work.

 

[Peter Strietmann]

C stand seems a bit sketchy as the feet would sink into the sand. How about speed rail or pipe and a wedge plate?

 

[Glen Powell]

C stand seems a bit sketchy as the feet would sink into the sand. How about speed rail or pipe and a wedge plate?

Maybe a piece of fence pipe (or two for stability between two rocky mountain stands with goal posts - mounting plate in the middle?

Why can't you use a jib?

 

[Arnold F.]

Can you link me to what you're describing? A C-stand would sink but not far and would be well-bagged/weighted.

The jib is out due to boring permit/budget crap.

 

[Jason Comparetto]

How far are you "arming out"? what's the total weight of the camera with lens attached?

there's a little bit of physics in this as well. if you are just arming out one foot, you're talking ~10 ft*lbs. Not that big a deal, especially if the arm is counterweighted. but if you want the camera 6 feet out and its wearing a RED lens... that's (6*15) = 90 ft*lbs, plus the weight of the arm itself. if you don't have to move the camera during the shot, I would personally use 2 c-stands. use one as the fulcrum and the 2nd as a counterbalance with a mafer clamp. It will also help to control shake and vibrations from the winds on the beach.

honestly if you like my advise above, then the right thing to do is roll out a jib arm. 2 c-stands plus the arm to connect them is going to weigh about as much as my seven jib. remember you can use the sand on the beach as counterweight, if you take the right bag with you. it may actually decrease set up time as well, since the jib arm (once its set up), places the camera at any height and at any radius relative to its fulcrum point.

you can email me directly at jason@CinemaOxide.com if you have further questions about this type of setup

 

[Glen Powell]

Essentially this with a camera hanging instead of a light:

(of course I'm Canadian and use our grip lingo…)

 

[Arnold F.]

I could probably get away with just three feet and the weight of my camera and lens would probably be about 15-17 pounds. I think I can manage the weighing down but I don't know what I mount on a C-stand that will hold a camera and be easily adjustable. I have not used anything like that nor do I remember seeing it done.

 

[Jason Comparetto]

the smarter thing to do with the c-stand is to lay it on a small piece of plywood. the feet will most definitely sink into the sand and could tilt just enough to ruin your day. the plywood will keep it pretty solid. but i still think the vibration through the arm is going to annoy you. i'm surprised a travel jib arm requires a permit but c-stands are ok.

 

[Jason Comparetto]

the goal post is a great way to accomplish this shot but you'll have boom shadow unless the shot is tight and/or the sun is at 45-degrees. what time of day are you shooting and at what latitude? oh yea... and it also attracts alot of attention if you are trying to get away without a permit

 

[Glen Powell]

the goal post is a great way to accomplish this shot but you'll have boom shadow unless the shot is tight and/or the sun is at 45-degrees. what time of day are you shooting and at what latitude? oh yea... and it also attracts alot of attention if you are trying to get away without a permit

Yeah you'd have to watch out for shadow and set-up properly even with a jib / crane, or the aforementioned C-stand. But that's why we get paid.

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

This can not only get you directly over the center, but can move as well.
Your own custom slider:

(2) Stands, JR receiver

(2) Ladder Truss w/ JR Pin

(2) Pcs. Speed Rail

CamTram or similar
(CamTram will need 14" c-c on the rails or use a large cheeseplate w/skateboard wheels) With a little imagination, you can easily rig this to be underslung - or for even less investment, a pc of plywood with a cut hole for the lens...

Edit: So far as the comments related to shadows, a large white beach umbrella can be both a blind to curious eyes and lighting control as well.

 

[Glen Powell]

This can not only get you directly over the center, but can move as well.
Your own custom slider:

(2) Stands, JR receiver

(2) Ladder Truss w/ JR Pin

(2) Pcs. Speed Rail

CamTram or similar
(CamTram will need 14" c-c on the rails or use a large cheeseplate w/skateboard wheels) With a little imagination, you can easily rig this to be underslung - or for even less investment, a pc of plywood with a cut hole for the lens...

Sounds great and would work - but - probably as expensive as a jib rental (in material rental & set up time), and as conspicuous as a jib, ( even my suggestion sucks-ish), if they are trying to get by without a permit.

My experience has always been this: F*** the permit! Get the shot and ask forgiveness IF you get caught. In most cases you can set-up shoot and be gone before anyone notices; if your crew is tight, you have a plan, and you are a decisive shooter who can set the shot and trust your instinct that you've got it.
As for the budget / rental issue… there's usually a way around that too. I find crying / temper tantrum in the pre pro meeting always works.

 

[ericyoung]

Whatever you end up using, make sure everything is safety bonded, and triple checked, so if anything slips or falls it can't drop all the way and hit your talent!

Sounds obvious, but easy to overlook things in the heat of shooting if you don't have a dedicated grip crew member.