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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Are you still shooting RED 3D with a beamsplitter?

Rudi,
yes it definately can be done and with a bit of work in post. I did the same with two reds side by side and sound/clapper. But as you say...and rolling shutter issue....not perfect, but definitely works. BUT with RED...there's also a camera reset time of something like 5ms on the new MX and i believe there may be some out of tolerance issue from camera to camera. at least up to build 30.5 I'm now on build 30.6 and have read that this is somewhat or is resolved. have not yet been able to shoot with the new build since no project at the moment. But RED introduces a few other hurdles to overcome. using the genlock devise had still been an issue even up to build 30.5

i give you credit for making it happen underwater.
 
Rudi,
I'll admit i'm a bit skeptical and have pre-conceived notions about good sync that is only frame accurate, because i've seen what it does to scenes which i have shot of nature that has any kind of reasonably fast motion in it. example wings of birds flapping (strobing flutter) or of animals running (hind legs look like they cross over front legs).

Of course people walking in a crowd also exhibits temporal artifacts. These are from cameras that are lanc synced, not just frame synced. and at 1/30th

If this were a CCD camera I'd be less skeptical, but Cmos chips with their line scanning is what makes me want to see this first hand.

If at some point you have some example footage that shows motion, and can make it available it would be great. I do have an interest in learning more to what can be applied where.

Regards
Clyde
 
for sake of completeness of the original topic, i'm reposting here...

For those of you shooting side by side, there *is* the possibility to now to change/tweak depth after the fact.

It's not new, this feature was there in Mistika/Nuke, but now a new software Emotion3D, promises better.

Read about it here: http://bit.ly/GDb6Cx

Regards.
Clyde


P.s Another feature of the software is that you can also shoot stereo and now easily create "tweens" for Autostereoscopic (glasses free) displays.
 
Very interesting times indeed Clyde,

however as a 3D specialist I still love the fact of been able to visualize my Depth Budget form the actual Screen writing of the story, and then translated to the Story Board, to then been able to apply and distribute lighting in a completely different form, as to further enhance the depth and visualization of all layers within a scene, so that the light aid the shadows and illuminated areas to further isolate objects contained within, as well as a clearer separation form the subjects, as well of course continue to play with DOF as needed same as I would in 2D stander filming.

Definitely such SW is already bringing huge advantages in post, yet I still don't fill comfortable allowing such tools to take over my style of storytelling in narrating a 3D environment were I don't control IO and convergence on the spot aided by my ever good friend... The Stereographer and my Beam Splitter Rig of choice... ;)

But I say that it is great to see such implementation coming to life, as there will be much less shots gone to waist with such tools, and more and more scenes get saved.

For now, I much wish on ever smaller and easier to control 3D rigs... ;)
 
How does Emotion3D deal with occlusions when parallax is altered? With Ocula (and several other optical flow analysis / view synthesis based processes), you have destructive tearing in the frame around the occluded fronts. The tears often need to be hand repaired, frame by frame.
 
@David, I suspect not every scene will work. I myself have not thoroughly put the software thru it's paces ( i guess I'm not a qualified After effects artist to extract everything from it as well).
Still, I believe you may have points there.

Ketch, what you say is true! No replacement for a live planned and executed shot. I think it's purpose will be tweaks, depth blends/cushioning and such in post, and to save many shots where positive parallax goes astray, since by default anything in after effects is keyframable.

The other points not directly related to the above are of course, multiview synthesis for autostereo displays (think ADs and Movie trailers of 3D films running on glasses free displays in Cinema lobbies and Malls) etc...

I'll brain-storm a couple ideas and put in an article on this, Let's see... food for thought.

(P.s I'm not getting paid or anything!
unless they buy a bunch of copies of my Think in 3D book to give away to clients :-)
 
I have seen a few demos of the "adjustable Io" in mystika. It "can" work on many scenes....it very much depends on the backgrounds and the textures in those backgrounds. How "homogenous" they are vs. geometrical or high contrast.....so many variables that play into adjusting IO in post. This is definitely the case of a shot by shot analysis and review of weather or not this technology can work to help the shot in question.

I can't imagine "depending" on this technology because I'm shooting side by side rig so I have to reduce my IO in post on many of my shots....

In other words, this technology in no way replaces the need for a beamsplitter.............in my view and opinion.

just my .02 cents.....
 
Would not count on such solution.
Try this.... shoot a macro shot. Run it trough the plugin... :)

The 3D perception is depending of the distance both between cameras but also between the camera and object shot. Two epics side by side and shooting something thats, lets say 20 cm away from the lens will just not work without a mirror array.

For the same reason landscape shots are sometimes made with big camera offsets macro shots needs a small offset. So this solution will only work from mid range and away. Nothing closer than 2-4 meters from cameras would be my guess, a bit depending on what the objects are and what lenses you are on.

So it works for some shots but for the most part it does not.
 
As David mentioned, the fly in the ointment is the edges. The artifacts in current software show up as wiggly/fluttering edges or blurry edges. You can blur and pull details in the areas near big Z changes, but then your material will look a lot like 'clash of the titans' and can in no way be passed of as native 3D footage any more.
I like wide lens's, portability, and 3d, so I am pursuing the matter.
 
:-) I know about the pros/cons Les, Bjorn,

I've been doing this a while, (back in 2004- 2007) for autostereo displays.
It works on a scene by scene basis, and this i've made clear in the article. (using the real flex plugin and Nuke+ocula solutions)

I've also mentioned that I've not thoroughly put the Emotions 3D app thru it's paces, but maybe if you guys are at NAB you can drop by them and let me know. (Ps. I have no affiliations with the company)

I like that it's got an intuitive tool-set for tweaking 3D in post, for dealing with depthmaps, and autostereo output all rolled in one.

Regards
Clyde
 
No Clyde there is not... ;)

However as you said, it can sure serve a great POST propose especially in this occasions when something din't get quiet right on the original capture of the image when filming, or for very particular situations were simply there isn't a budget.

Either way at the end is nice to see advancements in post production tools such as this.


Clyde DeSouza said:
Ketch, what you say is true! No replacement for a live planned and executed shot. I think it's purpose will be tweaks, depth blends/cushioning and such in post, and to save many shots where positive parallax goes astray, since by default anything in after effects is keyframable.

The other points not directly related to the above are of course, multiview synthesis for autostereo displays (think ADs and Movie trailers of 3D films running on glasses free displays in Cinema lobbies and Malls) etc...

I'll brain-storm a couple ideas and put in an article on this, Let's see... food for thought.

(P.s I'm not getting paid or anything!
unless they buy a bunch of copies of my Think in 3D book to give away to clients :-)
Click to expand...
 
Clyde DeSouza said:
for sake of completeness of the original topic, i'm reposting here...

For those of you shooting side by side, there *is* the possibility to now to change/tweak depth after the fact.

It's not new, this feature was there in Mistika/Nuke, but now a new software Emotion3D, promises better.

Read about it here: http://bit.ly/GDb6Cx

Regards.
Clyde


P.s Another feature of the software is that you can also shoot stereo and now easily create "tweens" for Autostereoscopic (glasses free) displays.
Click to expand...


I'd seen Emotion 3D last year at NAB as a prototype, but nothing since. But I wanted to also point out Eyeon Fusion's new plugin, Dimension: http://eyeonline.com/web/eyeonweb/products/Dimension/Dimension.aspx - which can also change IA, in addition to a number of other stereoscopically aware tools, such as re-timing. If I'm not mistaken, the plugin is only $1000, though I don't remember how much Fusion itself is. But from what I remember Emotion 3D was considerably more expensive.

I've got two Epics now, and am using both a side by side rig and a beamsplitter, depending on what I'm shooting of course. For the sbs, though, I'm converging around 18' and keeping everything mostly that far out. But - I am hoping to get some testing in with Eyeon / Dimension soon. It sure would be sweet to just shoot sbs. With the size and weight of the two Epics, it's pretty nicely manageable.
 
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