Are these good MAC choices for FCP???

[Lee Dashiell]

We're an "AVID house" but we are in the process of adding a FCP to our facility mainly because AVID seems to be dragging their asses on the rug.

Any suggestions that would help us with the RED would be greatly appreciated.

Here's the system that we have put together:

Apple Mac Pro 2.8 Ghz 8 Core Xeon “Harpertown”
ATI 3870 512MB Graphics (Duallink DVI)
eSATA PCI extension ports (2*eSATA)
8 GB RAM (8x1GB FB DIMM)
4 TB HD (4x1TB 7200 RPM) RAID 0 ARRAY (Software RAID)
Airport Extreme/ Bluetooth 2.0+ EDR
Mac OS X Leopard/ iLife ‘08
Apple Final Cut Studio 2

 

[Uli Plank]

Sounds pretty good to me, but if you plan to use Color, rather get an ATI graphics card.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

What issues are you having with nVidia in Color? And which nVidia card?

Other than being stuck with 8bpc output, I'm having pretty good results with the 8800GT. The ATI 3870 in another Mac pro isn't giving me anything better in Color.

At this point, unless you have to buy today, I would hold out for that nVidia Quadro CX card. If it fits the budget, that is. Otherwise, I would recommend the ATI 3870. It's a bit better than the 8800GT for FCS2 and a apparently CS4. The 8800GT is still the better card for Maya, Modo and some apps along that line.

...That's today's recommendation on video cards. I may change my opinion tomorrow.

Lee, Your config looks pretty good. However, I would probably advise against the 4xHDD in a software RAID-0. But that depends on what other storage solutions you will have in place. And what your needs are for the internal storage of this system.

 

[martinnoweck]

but he is planing to get an ATI card ;-)

your nvidia experience must have been terrifying ... what happened?

kind regards,
martin

 

[Dave Blackham]

I agree with Jeff on all points. the nVidia will work but he Ati will work better. just watch out for any 8 bit error that may emerge from whatever card you choose.

When you crate the raid create it as a three drive media array and leave one drive as system only. You can get away with a smaller drive for that too. it make is much easier for support.

When you've created a system drive that your content with, clone it with carbon copy cloner, its a fee download with voluntary contribution I think, and back it up some where perhaps on an external FW drive. Do this at any stage you update the system.

Dave
UK

 

[Sidney L. Plaut]

hehe,

I agree with Jeff and Dave. combine their posts and your all set to go.

no RAID 0. RAID 5 is the way to go. Safety reasons. if things can go wrong they will go wrong. Especially if you have clients sitting next to you and a deadline coming up. way of life, that I have just accepted.

Maybe i will take it a bit further and say "do not update ever" except on a clean system install. Things will go wrong if you update on a working system.

Carbon copy cloner is a great tool, last time my system wen down it took me 3 days to reinstall and fix - with carbon copy cloner it would have taken me 2 hours.

 

[Dave Blackham]

hehe,

no RAID 0. RAID 5 is the way to go. Safety reasons. if things can go wrong they will go wrong. Especially if you have clients sitting next to you and a deadline coming up. way of life, that I have just accepted.

Maybe i will take it a bit further and say "do not update ever" except on a clean system install. Things will go wrong if you update on a working system.

Good point, If you can make it raid 5 then do so, its a good thing to have. most companies rely on the integrety of the raid for protection and dont back up media. I cant say this is good but its what happens. Raid 5 will slow down the array some. Also if you do ahve any raid make sure you have a replacement drive ready to go when it fails. Swap out the drives at Year 3 and buy new ones, that assuming you havn't swapped out the whole box in the mean time.

And don't upgrade for the sake of it, do it only when required. Make sure you disable the auto update on it also. That's a real cause for greif....

You may like to get FCp rescue its useful.

Dave
UK

 

[martinnoweck]

why are you using ccc now there is time machine?

just curious, because i also still stick to ccc ... but sometimes it can be good to put old habits to question ;-)

regards,
martin

 

[Lee Dashiell]

Thanks very much for the responses. I know that some questions get asked on a regular basis and it gets old providing the same info over and over but it seems like the answer to this question is always evolving.

I have learned quite a bit reading into other threads but naturally want to make sure that I'm making the right decision when it comes to an edit system that I'm not that familiar with.

Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[Dave Blackham]

why are you using ccc now there is time machine?

just curious, because i also still stick to ccc ... but sometimes it can be good to put old habits to question ;-)

regards,
martin

CCC is proven to work at block level on the drive (I think) so an actual clone of the drive is created. Im not sure if Time machine works at this level or not.

Whichever, its proven and has always worked every time and is extremly good software.

Dave
UK

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

Personally, I feel very unsecure with software based RAID5. Has anyone good experience with those raids regarding rebuilding and restoring data after failure?

I've heard people having trouble rebuilding and restoring their data. I might be totally wrong but a software Raid5 is only in therory a secure option.

If security is of vital interest I recommend hardware based Raids with hotspares from experienced manufacturers with a good and long-time reputation in the industry. They are no longer that expensive as they used to be and can deliver up to 500 MB/sec and more even in Raid5 mode.

Backing up data, also from hardware raids, is crucial. I once had an "prosumer" Iomega Raid in Raid 5 mode and after failure it was impossible to rebuild the raid and restore the data... It's now in the bin. My "pro" FC-Raid on the contary never let me down in the last 5 years. Now I have to exchange all the HDs, their stated lifetime comes to an end. You get what you pay for.

Raids are definately not as secure as often advertised.

Hans

 

[Dave Blackham]

Raids are definately not as secure as often advertised.

Hans

This is quite true. When drives fail the who batch fails with in a few weeks of one another. A while ago we had mixed size drives in groups in various raid chassiss, 180Gb, 250GB, 400Gb, 500Gb. Same manufacturer and product. For some reason all the 250Gb drives failed with in a few weeks of one another, close to their advertised life end, probably 56 Drives all at once. All the other drives in the chassis carried on working fine. Since then I've discovered the 250's were a rogue batch.

Anyway if you cant live with this possibility, buy an LTO4 library, catDv, Dax plug in for catDVand Bru and you'll be well set.

Dave
UK

 

[Benjamin Rowland]

I can recommend the 3870 card. It has been a huge boost in performance for Apple's Motion.

You could possibly use a hardware raid instead by using a Caldigit card.
http://www.CalDigit.com/RAIDCard/
It will support four internal drives (and 12 external).

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Have a backup system in place. Take a serious look at the Quantum LTO-4HH desktop kit. it's under $2300 and 800GB tapes are about $75. Works with Retrospect and ATempo software.

In both my Mac Pro workstations, I have 4x1TB HDDs. One reserved as system drive, the remaining 3 drives in a RAID-0. RAID-5 is more secure, but on a 3-drive array, you're wasting your time, storage space and performance to use RAID-5. That's what good backups are for. I would not recommend software RAID-5. Software is OK for RAID-1 (mirroring) and RAID-0 (striping), but better performance will come with a good RAID controller. I recommend the CalDigit RAID card. Do not buy the Apple RAID card. I honestly can not say enough bad things about the Apple RAID card. I have one for sale, but honestly I like everyone here and would refuse to sell it to any of you.

I have the 8800GT card in one system and the 3870 in the other. I do see a noticeable boost with Motion3 on the 3870, but I don't use Motion very much. Overall, I don't see a whole lot of gains or advantages in most everything else I do. I don't see any reason to upgrade my 8800GT to the 3870. I plan to upgrade the 8800GT in my other system to the new Quadro CX w/ SDI option once it's available.

I have the CalDigit RAID card in both my Mac Pros now after pulling that Apple RAID card. This card is just plain nice. Good performance, works with bootcamp, robust tool set.