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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Apple push to win back pro editors

Mark Toia said:
After 12 months of using it... and got quite use to it... and really tried to like it... Ive let it go. The magnetic time line I do like, not having Ins and outs and being able to export single clips or movies, without going to compressor, a play head that keeps flying around under your the pen tool... constant crashing, low res playback until rendered, staggered playback if rendering in the back ground, RED R3D's are clunky to edit...
I figured out that I hate work arounds and that my time is precious... I was faster editing at some points, but really slow in other areas... over all. I was going backwards with my time per day. I never really had any problems or work arounds with FCP7 , Prem Cs6 equally less... So why do I have to do work arounds with X....
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Hi Mark,

I don't get what you are saying about In's and Out's... But just a couple of other things:

- Unlike with 10.0.0, FCPX now remembers your in and out points you set on a clip... Even better, you can have multiple in and outs (ranges), just with shortcuts, and put them on the timeline with one keystroke. So in concrete, I can go trough an interview, just mark in and out while it's playing, push one keystroke, and it's all there in the timeline. I just have to connect B-Roll above it, and done. Very quick...

- The skimmer (playhead moving around)... First things first, there is a big button and shortcut you can use and it's off... Second thing: I hated it at first too, now I can't live without it. It's a great tool to very fast get trough footage, compare things, etc. ...

- Constant crashing... It wasn't the most stable release 10.0.0., but this was to be excpected. It still isn't rock stable as 7 was, but I rarely get crashes anymore, and I never loose work.

- Export Single movies from a timeline is possible now. Added in an update. You don't have to go to compressor anymore.

- Background Rendering can be switched off, and most of us have.

- R3D's slow to edit... Since 10.0.6 it has native R3D support. Have you seen the tutorials from Sam from WeMakeMovies? They are great, and show a LOT of the power of FCPX. Highly recommended: http://themovieswemake.com/tutorials/ (check his RED Workflow videos)
You can have automated proxies generated on the background, switch with one button. In my opinion it's MUCH better then CS6 and FCP7, because it combines some of the best features of both (having RAW support and 4K output, but also not ONLY editing with native R3D resulting in some less stable timelines, especially long form). I would like to be able to adjust more RAW parameters than you can now in FCPX though.

I'm not trying to persuade you. But if you break down the software (partly) based on FUD (features that can be easily switched off, some things that are have been corrected in updates, etc.), then I just have to step in.
You say you used it for a year, but you seem to have missed some basic things in the software, as I pointed out above, so I take your statement about using it for a year with a grain of salt. And, to make sure: I've got a lot of respect for you as a filmmaker. You just said some incorrect statements.

And about the workarounds and learning new stuff: I hated FCPX first too. I even asked my money back. I used it again after 10.0.3, and had a big hate/love relationship. But I got intrigued, and used it more and more, and learned how the timeline worked more and more. Now I switched 100 procent of my work from 7 to X and I couldn't be happier.
I think some people have very legit complaints about FCPX, and I'm not going to say they are all stupid for ignoring it. I can only say based on my own experience that the cliché that FCPX users say about a lot of haters not knowing the software truly well and that you (well, a lot of us ;-)) learn to love it after re-learning a lot, every day, is correct.
 
Tim Morten said:
...My opinion, stated when FCPX launched (despite bitter opposition from Apple lovers like Terry and Scott), is that Apple is focused on mainstream consumers to the detriment of vertical markets such as professional editors. This is a hypothesis now supported by the indisputably poor launch of FCPX, the length of time it took to address the many complaints, and the clear lack of urgency updating the Mac Pro line. I perceive the current marketing push as a weak attempt by Apple to win back some hearts and minds with PR dollars. Color me unimpressed.The reality is that Apple makes the VAST majority of its money from the mainstream consumer. As a company, it has been financially rewarded for focusing its attention there, and there is little incentive to change: Apple is the most financially successful tech company in the world right now, bar none. I fully expect that Apple will throw vertical markets a bone from time-to-time, but realistically they no longer depend on verticals, and their priorities will continue to reflect this for the forseeable future.Meanwhile, companies like Adobe, Avid, and others will live or die based on how well they serve the specific needs of professional vertical markets, including our own. There is no question in my mind that this fundamental difference from Apple will continue to produce the best products for my needs.I hope Apple continues developing FCPX, and that some folks out there continue using it. It is extremely unlikely that I will be one of them, latest PR spend from Apple be damned.Best,Tim
Click to expand...

:-) Bitter opposition? That's fair enough I guess. I can't/don't deny being an Apple lover and I have almost always been a FCP editor. My current relationship with FCPX is one of love and hate... Yes hate. I fault nobody for running away screaming.

Has Apple become a consumer company? Absolutely. Will they always be? As long as they are publicly traded... yup. Does that mean they can not also service the professional community? No, Kodak did precisely that. Are they disinterested in serving professional editors? They say no, their actions suggest otherwise. The optimist in me concedes that their will may have softened considerably in the absence of Jobs. I resist that idea because I hope it isn't so, but that does not mean I expect to be right about it. :-|

Meryem Ersoz said:
Eight years is an eternity in the current tech paradigm. And I understated their cash pile - which currently sits at $137 billion, considerably up from the last time I looked. Apple has had no problem acquiring processors for laptops and minis and Imacs, all of which are now approaching the horsepower of my older edition tower, so I still don't grasp why the tower would be this huge stumbling block which you're making it out to be - every single computer in their line *except* the tower are by now many editions removed from their earlier models.ergo, the problem isn't access to the technology to build a better tower. the problem is (and continues to be) Apple's will to deliver what their higher-demand customers have asked for, during the past four years - I'm sure they have their reasons, all of which seemed logical at the time - poor margins, limited sales, economies of scale relative to their consumer product lines - but to then attempt to woo professionals to the fold with empty rhetoric instead of the products we need and have been vocal about for years now - it's a fail.
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Like you I have been anxiously hoping for a new tower. The difference between us seems to be one of optimism, I suppose. We both see a lack of activity but I presume there must be a reason for it, and you take the position that there is no reason save for what, Apple arrogance or disinterest or something? Either of those could be correct, I just lean to the likelihood that Apple and Intel currently have an exclusive deal for Apple desktop system CPU's, and that is one reason why the desktop systems have lagged behind the mobile devices.

Tim and Meryem. :beer:
 
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what will ultimately move Apple to a more responsive position is that stock price...

Adobe is doing well with its niche and, after several years of lagging, is finally gaining some traction based on its attention to "niche" vertical markets.

Apple is responding to Adobe's success and a more evident saturation of gadgets in the consumer space - and not to the users who have been chanting the same dull refrain repeatedly - which strikes me as a little unfortunate. probably why I'm increasingly pessimistic. didn't used to me, but much faith has been eroded over time.

:beer: back atcha Scott....
 
Apple's market cap = $415B
Adobe's market cap = $21B

Apple could buy Adobe 5 times over with cash on hand. I don't think they are worried too much about what Adobe could do to them.

It would actually be sort of humorous if they bought Adobe. What would all those people fleeing from FCP to Premiere do then? LOL
 
Terry VerHaar said:
FWIW, Apple did this type of case study marketing for years with FCP. Not sure why this is laughable. One thing Apple is traditionally good at is marketing.
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The difference is Apple was trying to break into the professional editing market with FCP. They had a good product that was worth checking out. At that time there was Avid and there was nothing. It worked and FCP became a major player in the market. Avid finally got scared at FCP5,and by FCP 7, Apple had Avid in deep trouble. All Apple had to do was have a 64bit 4K upgrade to FCP7, fix a few bugs and they would have surpassed Avid as the #1 NLE.

Instead they did a total system reboot. I couldn't use FCPx even if I wanted to because it simply cannot do the things I need a NLE system to do. End of Story. I see where FCPx is going. I can see that it's probably the future of editing. It's ready for touchscreen editing which I'm excited about.

But I don't edit in the future, I edit now.

This marketing campaign is about trying to regain the users they lost to Avid and Adobe.
 
Wow, you are showing your true colors as a total fanboy. Who makes statements like these? Nothing you say can be taken serously, you obviously have no interest in the best NLE, you have an emotional interest in Apple.

Terry VerHaar said:
Apple's market cap = $415B
Adobe's market cap = $21B

Apple could buy Adobe 5 times over with cash on hand. I don't think they are worried too much about what Adobe could do to them.

It would actually be sort of humorous if they bought Adobe. What would all those people fleeing from FCP to Premiere do then? LOL
Click to expand...
 
Brad Webb said:
The difference is Apple was trying to break into the professional editing market with FCP. They had a good product that was worth checking out. At that time there was Avid and there was nothing. It worked and FCP became a major player in the market. Avid finally got scared at FCP5,and by FCP 7, Apple had Avid in deep trouble. All Apple had to do was have a 64bit 4K upgrade to FCP7, fix a few bugs and they would have surpassed Avid as the #1 NLE.

Instead they did a total system reboot. I couldn't use FCPx even if I wanted to because it simply cannot do the things I need a NLE system to do. End of Story. I see where FCPx is going. I can see that it's probably the future of editing. It's ready for touchscreen editing which I'm excited about.

But I don't edit in the future, I edit now.

This marketing campaign is about trying to regain the users they lost to Avid and Adobe.
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How does that explain the marketing they did in 2008+ when they already owned the NLE market?
 
Paul Harb said:
Wow, you are showing your true colors as a total fanboy. Who makes statements like these? Nothing you say can be taken serously, you obviously have no interest in the best NLE, you have an emotional interest in Apple.
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I just enjoy tweaking you. Always fun to see you take things so seriously. :smiley:
 
Mark Toia said:
Im not a dinosaur. I know flame , smoke, nuke , AE , PS, iL, Avid, FCPx and 7 , premier CS6 , and getting into cinema 4d ....
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Wait just a moment Mark.
By "I know Smoke", are you the same guy who recently bashed Smoke on a Mac and said it's unusable in it's present form? Is that what you cal "know"? Poking around a little and actually using the program on daily basis a big difference...
 
LOL, werent you just crying and being all sensitive and butt hurt thinking I was calling you mediocre because I dont like FCPX?

To say that you think it would be funny and awesome if Apple bought Adobe for the sole purpose of laughing at people who left FCP for Premiere because they needed an NLE that works in their workflow is beyond childish and lets everyone know what a total **** you are.

:thumbsup:



Terry VerHaar said:
I just enjoy tweaking you. Always fun to see you take things so seriously. :smiley:
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Anyone who thinks an Apple machine is the best tool for post production needs to take a look at how outdated and overpriced the Mac Pro is.

Premiere and Avid are the NLE's to go with. Cutting edge GPUs are needed to make your computer sing. Apple's progress in this regard is laughable.

They make their money off phones and well designed consumer electronics. The days of FCP are over.
 
Paul - you're upset. From the beginning I have been saying you should definitely stay away from FCP-X and use what you think best for you. I'd love the same consideration but, hey.... whatever. And, I NEVER use the word "awesome." LOL

BTW - do you really think there is one "best" NLE?

Also, you might find it interesting that Apple recently hired Adobe's CTO, Kevin Lynch.
 
Niko Pueringer said:
Anyone who thinks an Apple machine is the best tool for post production needs to take a look at how outdated and overpriced the Mac Pro is.

Premiere and Avid are the NLE's to go with. Cutting edge GPUs are needed to make your computer sing. Apple's progress in this regard is laughable.

They make their money off phones and well designed consumer electronics. The days of FCP are over.
Click to expand...

The days of FCP are far from over, we are simply at the beginning of a new age. The OS9 app you once knew has been replaced by a modern, sleek 64bit app.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Apple could buy Adobe 5 times over with cash on hand. I don't think they are worried too much about what Adobe could do to them.
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You are missing the point, Terry. With slowing revenue, increasing competition, and emerging market saturation in their consumer products, Apple will be looking harder at all of their revenue streams - especially the ones that are working for their competitors, even if those competitors seem small now.

Remember when Apple was on life support, and you could pick up its stock shares for $11/share? And it was bailed out by Bill Gates, to avoid anti-trust problems? They were not always a titan of technology - Apple was to Microsoft as Adobe appears to Apple now. Times change. And smugness and indifference to an existing user base are never smart moves...
 
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