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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Apple- No love for it's "RED" headed step child!

I been doing this 2k/4k thing for almost 15 years now, and it's always been a jigsaw puzzle for workflow solutions.

In fact after doing it for so long, I get a kick out of figuring out a new flow.

I figure if you're spending serious $$$ on a decent Red package and accessories, then it's more than a whim, it's a real investment. That means a good workflow is a serious need.

From my experience I don't see why the post flow has to be based on only one platform or one software package. I see a balanced mix of hardware/software will bring maximum results, especially since different platforms have different advantages.

I know on the indie side, it's preferable to stick to one affordable solution and I really believe it'll happen soon enough.

Maybe it'll be iMovie 4k first.... :biggrin:

Apple does that sometimes...
 
Finner said:
I do like to stir up shit a little but my main hope here is that apple does a few things to help ensure red is successful.
Click to expand...

I'm glad we're in agreement on something although I like my poop unstirred. :sick:

Maybe some of your concerns would be better heard on the apple forums?
Who knows which apple groups lurk here.
 
In Red's defence, I guess it is a little like going on holiday, everyone gets in the car all excited like, but then slowly as the journey progresses, you start to here those little voices from the back seat pipe up. "Are we there yet, are we there yet!" There are only so many times you can calmly say "no were not there yet" before you blow your top and shout "NO, now shut up!"

I don't think we said anything negative against Red, it certainly wasn't meant to be read that way. Our comments were just annoying and frustrating to hear.

Red have my complete trust, I know you will come through for us. I want them to succeed.
 
Hi Mmost from the locked down post,
Conform from film last time, slate to slate, fair bit of footage to crunch thru.
I include Film Neg conform in that cost, Datacine to SR444 cheap technical
grade, then davinchi tape to disk. All up about $40K, tape deliverables 5K.
Original quote $100K got it down to $50K bitched and got another $5K off.
Stuff looks ...........dodgy, clipped,noisy, grade is good but the old 1080p
SR 444 just don't cut it for film out IMHO.
Will go 2K DPX IQ and Pablo with the next one.
Would love to know heaps more about Scratch conform only Box pricing.
Seems to be some kind of national secret over there in the U.S.
I'd have about $10K U.S to spend, can Luki slap a cheapie together for that?
Cheers Mezmo.
 
Hi Fredrik from the locked down post,
Don't know where you got the idea I want to grade in FCS for film out.
Sorry if it sounded that way.
Colorist will grade the next project using Pablo, final conform and tweaks on IQ. I need a system that can rough conform from R3d (with handles), render out 2K DPX at a reasonable speed. and preferably without costing an arm and leg. Still seachin.
Mezmo
 
mezmo said:
Would love to know heaps more about Scratch conform only Box pricing. Seems to be some kind of national secret over there in the U.S. I'd have about $10K U.S to spend, can Luki slap a cheapie together for that? Cheers Mezmo.
Click to expand...

(Must..... Control..... Fist.... of..... Rage.....)

Hi Mezmo

It's not a state secret - it's just a contact me offlist thing. I don't do quotes or pricing on a public forum monitored by pretty much every single one of ASSIMILATE's competitors. : )

lucas at assimilateinc dot com.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
mezmo said:
Hi Mmost from the locked down post,
Conform from film last time, slate to slate, fair bit of footage to crunch thru.
I include Film Neg conform in that cost, Datacine to SR444 cheap technical
grade, then davinchi tape to disk. All up about $40K, tape deliverables 5K.
Original quote $100K got it down to $50K bitched and got another $5K off.
Click to expand...

So you did what I would describe as a "TV style" finish. I assume you did the color correction on an HD monitor in a typical telecine suite, for video only, with no film recording. The price you mention is reasonable, if still a bit high, for that kind of finish. It all depends on how many hours of color correction you either asked for or were given.

Stuff looks ...........dodgy, clipped,noisy, grade is good but the old 1080p
SR 444 just don't cut it for film out IMHO.
Click to expand...

4:4:4 video transfer, done properly, is just fine as a film DI source. The issue is how it was done, how the telecine was set up, and how the conforming chain was handled. There is not that much difference between properly done dual link HD and a 2K film scan. There is a difference, but it's not night and day.
 
Hi Mike,
About 40 Hours to Grade, this was a 1.85:1 finish shot Super 16 mostly,
some HD(video look) Inserts. The video SR444 compression and 16mm
(Fuji) film grain don't seem to like each other (Kodak Vision 3 may help)
Shooting a 2.35/40:1 project 35mm 2/3 perf would have me worried with a
'TV style' 444 video finish. Checked out a 3 perf job recently shot by a mate.and finished SR444, same clipped, noisy look, different facility.
OUR grade was good fast and efficient with conform in various discreet/autodesk boxes and a good film out result for what the project required.
I do need to get a better high quality result for the next 2.35/40:1 project,
still low budget but much more ambitious.
I've shot a few 35mm Features in the past with full photochemical post
path and have been spoiled for life.
Mezmo
 
luki said:
(Must..... Control..... Fist.... of..... Rage.....)

Hi Mezmo

It's not a state secret - it's just a contact me offlist thing. I don't do quotes or pricing on a public forum monitored by pretty much every single one of ASSIMILATE's competitors. : )

lucas at assimilateinc dot com.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
Click to expand...
Hi Luki,
Will contact you when my acquisition and post plan for this project is a little more
together, (could be Film or Red/Digital or both) in the meantime control the rage and hey,
competition is a good thing, it helps you grow a better product.
Have a nice day, Mezmo
 
mezmo said:
Hi Fredrik from the locked down post,
Don't know where you got the idea I want to grade in FCS for film out.
Sorry if it sounded that way.
Colorist will grade the next project using Pablo, final conform and tweaks on IQ. I need a system that can rough conform from R3d (with handles), render out 2K DPX at a reasonable speed. and preferably without costing an arm and leg. Still seachin.
Mezmo
Click to expand...

Ok, my misunderstanding, sorry.
And BTW, if anything else fails: come to Norway and I'll grade and finish your feature on our Scratch. Without costing an arm and leg... :cold:
 
Thomas Mathai said:
Isn't that what the Genesis outputs?

Has there been a lot of protests over it?
Click to expand...
Hi Thomas I'm talking 1080p 444 from Super 16 ,whole different
kettle o fish.
Genesis is designed for this workflow, in my experience Super 16 has
trouble. Even 2/3perf 35mm ain't that flash using this workflow IMHO.
Genesis won't throw up anything like Super 16 grain and it's pretty noisless
if used well. 444SR would be fine with this camera. And is.
Mezmo
 
mezmo said:
Hi Thomas I'm talking 1080p 444 from Super 16 ,whole different
kettle o fish.
Genesis is designed for this workflow, in my experience Super 16 has
trouble.
Click to expand...

Hmm. My experience has shown me that the telecine used, and how it is set up, is far more significant than any effects of SR compression. In fact, we've done projects using S16 and SR, and we've done projects using S16 and 444 without SR (direct from telecine to DPX files, no compression at all) and the difference, if any, is very minimal.
 
mmost said:
Hmm. My experience has shown me that the telecine used, and how it is set up, is far more significant than any effects of SR compression. In fact, we've done projects using S16 and SR, and we've done projects using S16 and 444 without SR (direct from telecine to DPX files, no compression at all) and the difference, if any, is very minimal.
Click to expand...
Hi Mike,
How do you go direct to DPX from a box like 4K Spirit, sounds interesting, would have to be better than 444tape. Of course a scan beats all. way slow though, and freakin expensive.
Mezmo
 
Hi Finner,
Sorry to bog up the thread with all my film post crap.
Now where were we . Apple who the *#@+*%% do they think they are
not going to NAB 08.
Mezmo
 
2K via Daul SDI into a Megacine, Kona 3 something similar?
Mezmo
AHHHH missed it now I see RAVE DDR , cool.
 
Could someone kindly fill me in as to the reservations being expressed here regarding workflow issues between Red One and Apple (FCP 2)? I ask as am currently looking into investing in that very setup.

Do you guys consider Scratch to be a better workflow solution than the Apple alternative?

Many thanks in advance.
 
Dukeswharf said:
Could someone kindly fill me in as to the reservations being expressed here regarding workflow issues between Red One and Apple (FCP 2)? I ask as am currently looking into investing in that very setup.

Do you guys consider Scratch to be a better workflow solution than the Apple alternative?

Many thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Hey Duke,

There is a *lot* of info on workflow in these threads. If you can, I'd spend some time searching the archives and doing some reading.

SCRATCH is not a better solution, it is a complementary solution and does different things than FCS2.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
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