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Apple Color Quality

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martin.kryjom

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HI
Please tell me . Does Apple color enough quality to do cinema commercial?
I do not talk about options, just pure quality of image. I'm wondering how it works.
I have tested for examle IRIDAS and is not so expensive as Scrach but has GREAT quality of the pictures. COLOR is cheaper , much cheaper but i'm wondering if the quality is worst becouse of that.

I render 10 bits log wfrom REDCINE and i can not switch to 10 bits in color, only 8 bits and floating point is available...

I think to set up Color with CINESPACE Visual CUBE ( LUT Bulider) , i have Cinental monitors and so on, so all LUT path is prepared, now is only question about quality of images...

Please advice
 
martin.kryjom said:
HI
Please tell me . Does Apple color enough quality to do cinema commercial?
I do not talk about options, just pure quality of image. I'm wondering how it works.
I have tested for examle IRIDAS and is not so expensive as Scrach but has GREAT quality of the pictures. COLOR is cheaper , much cheaper but i'm wondering if the quality is worst becouse of that.
Click to expand...

"Quality" is a non-issue. Essentially all current software based color correctors do their internal calculations at 32 bit float bit depth. They all use essentially the same math, the same algorithms. The differences are in speed, features, compatibility, flexibility, and, in general, their ability to be used efficiently. That's why Lustre, for instance, costs over $150,000 and Color is basically free.

Rather than worry about quality issues due to software, you might want to consider that most of the quality or lack of it will come from the person doing the work, not the particular software they're using. Given proper monitoring - itself far more important than the particular software choice - a good colorist can do the same job using any of them. If, however, one program is more appealing to that person due to certain features, that is something to consider. But "quality," per se, is basically the same across all of them.
 
HI
Thanks A lot for u advice
I do collor myself and i used to do it as a free lancer on Nucoda Digital Vision, I have also used Discreet Collor corector in LUSTRE and combustion. Now i'm runing own company ,and this is why i'm so suspicious about COLOR as is so cheap and I'm used to systems for 150 000 dollars:)
For sur eit will b emore work , i will have to push some things to be done "other way or around" but most important for me was the way how Color works. I remember the 1st days of Digital Color Corection when the corection was made one above aother, so after 10 steps u have distroyed all "pixels"
In Lustre and IRIDAS the changes are calculated in the end, so u maintain good quality even if u have made a lot of them to the picture.

Is good to know that COLOR works same way ( from mathematical point of view)
Thaks
 
color does 10 bit log as well, as dpx or uncompressed quicktime only though, and yes the 32 bit float quality histogram monitoring and intuitive speed is extremely good. The are only a few differences between color and lustre. Color if free with FCP studio 2. scratch, iridas, lustre and nucoda are better at final conform, which per your original post for film commercial will be okay if you export into and out color as DPX files, you still have the problem final conform to tape. I have never tried conforming in FCP, so i will not be able to help you there.
 
Stick Color into "float" and you'll get fine quality from it. It's a very good, if a touch idiosyncratic app.

Graeme
 
Doing another render from Color in ProRes will always be good enough for tape. IMHO, DPX is only necessary for film-out.
 
Color came from Silicon Color who made Final Touch, based in San Deigo.

Final Touch 2K was designed for finishing Cineon and DPX files in realtime.
Mapped and designed with DaVinci artists in mind.
Apple acquired Final Touch they did not design nor come up with the product.
It was an awesome move in order to compete effectively and at a very high level against all color grading systems and software available.
Before Apple bought out Final Touch Avid had a competitive edge against FCP
Final Touch is now Color in APPLE'S FCPStudio this in many peoples opinions pushed FCP studio to the level and capabilities of AVID and beyond.

I once heard that Silicon Color was charging $117,000.00 for a copy of Final Touch 2K, If anybody has any information on that i would love to hear or see it.

So if you need a product to cost $150,000.00 to believe that its great.
I hope that helps you understand some of the background.

I do remember when Final Touch cost $25,000.00 not to long ago, right before Apple acquired them.
 
Color is a great application and the quality perfectly OK. Bear in mind also the system as a whole is very important so a fast GPU card is essential as is fast media storage.

Mike makes an excelent point in monitoring is critical and the environment in which the suite is installed. This is just as important as the grading software and hardware.

The guys we use to drive it dont seem to have any speed issues apart from rendering which most software based solutions will always have. If anything if the media is coming via FCP then the xml import has a big advantage over most other systems as you can bring in a layered time line easily.

Dave
UK
 
I just picked up Magic Bullet Looks during the sale yesterday. Very impressed so far.

Someday I'll go back to trying to figure out what to do with Color, but meanwhile...
 
Does anyone know where I can find some quality tutorials in Apple's Color? Or maybe just some tutorials on color correction in general? I prefer free tutorials if possible, but if you've tried one that's amazing, I wouldn't mind paying for it.
 
I have gone threw all 3 of these DVD's
please dont hate me i must be honest with the products.

Ripple Training's Color Grading in Color - DVD Edition is a very nice introduction into Apples Color. Informative and gets you to understand Color enough that you can really dive in.
Cost is like $120 bucks worth the money in my opinion.

Walter Biscardi from Creative cow forum.
Has some free tutorials on Creative Cow. Useful free tutorials. But to get the full effect he has his own dvd called Stop Staring and Start Grading with Apple Color.
$50.00 bucks great buy well worth it. And has his humor which keeps it interesting. Again you learn enough that you can start to dive into Color.

Lynda.com is a unique tutorial situation. They are not DVDs but online tutorials.
They have tutorials for hundreds maybe even over a thousand products.
They are well done, informative, educational, and very well worth it.
Possibly the best way to spend $25.00 but you only have a month to slam it out.
You also have access to just about everything else they provide with the same $25.00 spent.
Or you can buy an Annual subscription for $250.00 again a great buy if your into learning by way of tutorials.
Their color grading tutorials are very nicely done and they touch on subjects having to do with actual color, how our brain works and understands color the visual color not just the program "color by apple". a great buy.

There is a 3rd DVD out there which i will not name because the creator is a poster in here.
I bought his DVD and unfortunately i was very disappointed.


Hope that helps.
 
Ripple Training's Color Grading in Color was awesome, worth every penny, taught me everything I needed to know to use the tool/understand the interface etc.

A cheap solution to an expensive colour problem.

DPX/Tiffs etc, are important when you're pushing the grade at all, pro rez falls apart pretty quickly if you start cranking things.

Cal
 
Lynda.com is amazing I am a subscriber and will pick up those recomended DVDs. Good to confirm what intuition already had whispered, saves time & cash.

How would that proper "Environment" look for optimum performance? With the focus being "Color" grading.

Is there a list anywhere of the "Best" ( I know its a taste thing and relative but anyway ) Monitors in order of quality and price?

What do the best of the best usually rent for daily? And who rents out that kind of gear usually?




Dogday.
 
callan said:
Ripple Training's Color Grading in Color was awesome, worth every penny, taught me everything I needed to know to use the tool/understand the interface etc.
Click to expand...

Is it just the interface and how the app works or do they get into the art of color grading and creating looks, secondaries, color fx room - and the motivation for doing so etc.?
 
BigLu said:
I have gone threw all 3 of these DVD's
please dont hate me i must be honest with the products.

Ripple Training's Color Grading in Color - DVD Edition is a very nice introduction into Apples Color. Informative and gets you to understand Color enough that you can really dive in.
Cost is like $120 bucks worth the money in my opinion.

Walter Biscardi from Creative cow forum.
Has some free tutorials on Creative Cow. Useful free tutorials. But to get the full effect he has his own dvd called Stop Staring and Start Grading with Apple Color.
$50.00 bucks great buy well worth it. And has his humor which keeps it interesting. Again you learn enough that you can start to dive into Color.

Lynda.com is a unique tutorial situation. They are not DVDs but online tutorials.
They have tutorials for hundreds maybe even over a thousand products.
They are well done, informative, educational, and very well worth it.
Possibly the best way to spend $25.00 but you only have a month to slam it out.
You also have access to just about everything else they provide with the same $25.00 spent.
Or you can buy an Annual subscription for $250.00 again a great buy if your into learning by way of tutorials.
Their color grading tutorials are very nicely done and they touch on subjects having to do with actual color, how our brain works and understands color the visual color not just the program "color by apple". a great buy.

There is a 3rd DVD out there which i will not name because the creator is a poster in here.
I bought his DVD and unfortunately i was very disappointed.


Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

I love this forum...
 
Another great source is "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction" by Steve Hullfish. And it's really about what the title says, both art and technique.
 
Jose,
Color is designed to work with 2k Max
dont try 4k into it.

good luck.
 
How would that proper "Environment" look for optimum performance? With the focus being "Color" grading.

Is there a list anywhere of the "Best" ( I know its a taste thing and relative but anyway ) Monitors in order of quality and price?

What do the best of the best usually rent for daily? And who rents out that kind of gear usually?


DogDay.
 
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