Apple Color Export

[John Desay]

Hi guys just a quick workflow question.
Want to edit Scarlet footage in FCP and grade in Color.
Workflow is:
1.Import R3D's in RCX
2.Export to QT proxies for edit in FCP.
3.Import proxies into FCP and lock edit.
4.Export XML from FCP and import back into RCX to relink 4K footage.
5.Export QT Wrapper of Timeline back into FCP.
6.Send sequence To Color for grade.
7.Relink original R3D's in Color timeline and finish grade.

Since i relinked the original R3D's in Color,my Resolution Preset is set to 4k in the Project settings tab.
I want to export to 2k using Pro Res HQ for final output but if i leave the Resolution preset as it is it will output a 4k QT file which i dont want.
If i do change the resolution preset to 1080p does that mean i am grading in that color space and not the 16bit RAW file-or am i still grading in the RAW color space since i'm using the QT wrapper from the original file sent from FCP?

Any help appreciated....

Cheers.

 

[jake blackstone]

I know it will not help in your case, nevertheless, why deal with this craziness and complications and not just download free Resolve lite, export XML and grade with R3D? I know it takes time to learn the new software, but with Resolve being so much better and faster, I would imagine it would be much faster just to learn a bit of Resolve, especially, if you already know Color, than using third party software and jump through all these hoops.
Going back to your original question, changing resolution of your project has nothing to do with color depth of the project.

 

[John Desay]

Thanks for the reply Jake.

Believe me,i would love to use Resolve-unfortunately i'm still editing on a dual display iMac and the graphics card is not supported.

 

[Michael McCaffrey]

Even though the graphics card is "not supported" it will still work. Without the graphics card you just lose accelerated real-time playback. I installed Resolve Lite and had a few error screens complaining about my graphics card and the fact I dont have CUDA drivers installed. But when you get into the program it works just fine. I have an ATI Radeon 4870.

 

[Mike Halper]

John,

Your workflow is a little wrong.

1. Transcode R3D's to ProRes. Definitely not recommended to work with proxies in FCP.
2. Import ProRes shots into FCP and edit, lock edit.
3. Export XML from FCP, and import that XML in RCXP and reconform to R3D's (proxies/wrappers actually), then export new XML and import into FCP. You can also try using Clipfiner/Color Fixer.
4. Send new sequence from imported/reconformed XML (from RCXP) to Color. You will already be linked to R3D's once you send to Color with this workflow. You can confirm this be selecting the RED tab in the Primary room. If you can make adjustments you're working with R3D's, if they are grayed out then you didn't reconform to the R3D's/proxies properly in RCXP or Clipfinder.
5. Grade, Render, Send to FCP. Done.

Set the resolution you want to output at in the project settings tab. Then set your proxy resolution. I usually go with 1/4 or 1/2 for playback and full (sometimes 1/2) for grading, and full for rendering for 4K output. If you're outputting to 1080p or 2K and want to render faster you can lower the quality of the proxy for rendering, but know you'll take a slight hit in detail vs. full.

 

[John Desay]

Hi Michael/Mike,

Thanks for the reply guys.Mike i will install Resolve Lite again and see how i get on-think me graphics card is even older than yours(ATI,RadeonHD2600) but i'll give it a go.

Mike i'm not sure why you say it's not recommended to work with proxies in FCP.The only reason i did it was to save on transcoding time-and just wanted to have smooth playback in FCP so i can actually do an edit-
i dont seem to have a problem when i relink to 4k in RCX.When i Send To Color,the RED tab in the Primary In room is active so i'm sure i'm still accessing the original R3D.
Was asking to David from RED about this workflow too and here's what he had to say...



"When you grade an R3D in color you are calling into our plugin behind the scenes, which decodes a raw frame and applies
any settings you have made on the RED tab under the Primary In tab.

As far as your workflow goes, you can enhance it a little bit in step 2. When exporting your proxies, you can also choose to export an FCP XML (in the export preset settings). This will make your import in FCP allot easier."

 

[Johnny Friday]

I know it will not help in your case, nevertheless, why deal with this craziness and complications and not just download free Resolve lite, export XML and grade with R3D? I know it takes time to learn the new software, but with Resolve being so much better and faster, I would imagine it would be much faster just to learn a bit of Resolve, especially, if you already know Color, than using third party software and jump through all these hoops.
Going back to your original question, changing resolution of your project has nothing to do with color depth of the project.

Jake: you work in Resolve all the time. And i have a question for you about this...NONE of my Prores transcodes EVER come out as i colored them in RCX or PremierPro. Only wrapping R3d's in QT wrappers and using COLOR gives me the results i see in COLOR and then the actual Prores file...I've gotten great looking results in RCX & PrPro, but the ACTUAL transcoded prores files themselves when viewed are muddy/desaturated...THIS since 2007...hence using COLOR & FCP...it just seems apple plays better with apple software.

So, my question is you being a colorist...can you tell if Resolve will in fact give me WYSIWYG ? the actual prores file will look like i colored it in resolve? This is a plague that i have not been able to figure out at all and there are three of us that have been trying to figure it out a long time...i thought PrPro would be the piece of software with AE....but apparently not...don't even know why adobe puts grading effects there if i 'm not going to get what i see....and i've forever heard of the "gamma shifting" thing. It's some mystery to me why these programs can't put out a nice looking prores file AS IT was colored. I've yet to try Resolve, but was on my "next" list. I also realize PrPro and RCX are not real grading tools. But neither i FCP, and i get great results with FCP...and amazing there is not more chatter about this....

 

[jake blackstone]

Jake: you work in Resolve all the time. And i have a question for you about this...NONE of my Prores transcodes EVER come out as i colored them in RCX or PremierPro. Only wrapping R3d's in QT wrappers and using COLOR gives me the results i see in COLOR and then the actual Prores file...I've gotten great looking results in RCX & PrPro, but the ACTUAL transcoded prores files themselves when viewed are muddy/desaturated...THIS since 2007...hence using COLOR & FCP...it just seems apple plays better with apple software.

So, my question is you being a colorist...can you tell if Resolve will in fact give me WYSIWYG ? the actual prores file will look like i colored it in resolve? This is a plague that i have not been able to figure out at all and there are three of us that have been trying to figure it out a long time...i thought PrPro would be the piece of software with AE....but apparently not...don't even know why adobe puts grading effects there if i 'm not going to get what i see....and i've forever heard of the "gamma shifting" thing. It's some mystery to me why these programs can't put out a nice looking prores file AS IT was colored. I've yet to try Resolve, but was on my "next" list. I also realize PrPro and RCX are not real grading tools. But neither i FCP, and i get great results with FCP...and amazing there is not more chatter about this....

You should get WYSIWYG with pretty much with any color grading software, including RCX and Resolve. Well, at least I do Otherwise, what's the point of color grading, if your result is different after the render?
The reason why you're not getting WYSIWYG can be the way you monitor your images, i.e. analog, DVI, HDMI, SDI. I just did a freelance gig on client's Resolve and their monitoring was done with an analog feed. In that case render was completely different from what I was seeing on the screen. Once monitoring was moved to SDI there were no more issues.
Also, you may need to look into differences between legal and full range monitoring, which will affect your render. Monitor calibration is very important, but in this particular case it really doesn't matter...

 

[Mike Halper]

Mike i'm not sure why you say it's not recommended to work with proxies in FCP.The only reason i did it was to save on transcoding time-and just wanted to have smooth playback in FCP so i can actually do an edit-
i dont seem to have a problem when i relink to 4k in RCX.When i Send To Color,the RED tab in the Primary In room is active so i'm sure i'm still accessing the original R3D.
Was asking to David from RED about this workflow too and here's what he had to say...



"When you grade an R3D in color you are calling into our plugin behind the scenes, which decodes a raw frame and applies
any settings you have made on the RED tab under the Primary In tab.

As far as your workflow goes, you can enhance it a little bit in step 2. When exporting your proxies, you can also choose to export an FCP XML (in the export preset settings). This will make your import in FCP allot easier."

I was saying not to use the proxies because the performance of them is usually not great in FCP, especially when you have a lot of them in a sequence for a longer project. FCP will usually play fine at first, but after several seconds starts to choke. Transcoding to ProRes gives you a more effortless way of editing. This is strictly for editing, and if you use it you will need to reconform to get the RED controls in Color. The way you're planning to do it with the proxies now will get you the RED controls since the proxies reference the R3D's as David from Red told you.