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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Anyone using CineForm instead of Prores?

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fred gasc

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Hi,

I have never used so far CineForm and would be interested to have your views on it,
specially compared to Prores and also jpeg2000 for archiving.


Something I really don't understand is that they have also a Raw format and a similar app
like RCX called Firstlight if my memory's correct, and I've seen that some people are
taking time to convert R3D or cinemaDNG to CineForm...and there, I don't get it!
What's the benefit to convert a RAW file into another Raw file of a different flavour?
And having to use another "raw develloper" when we can do that in RCX or Resolve or Scratch?...

It seems to me a lot of extra hassl..., for what?

In the official site, I can't see the pricing for a premium license. Edit: 300 bucks.
 
Last edited:
CineForm is a darn good codec, but it lacks the wide adoption of ProRes/DNx__/etc. In terms of the "why go from one RAW to another?" question, some people prefer different debayering algorithms. Is it worth the hassle? For some projects it might be well worth the extra step to get just the right "feel", but in my world I typically use the scaling filter choice to dial in the "look" rather than seeking alternative algorithms. YMMV.

Cheers - #19
 
Thanks guys.
From what I read here and there, many people
Seem to consider CineForm superior to Prores.
But the paradox is that Prores and Dnx are ruling.

Is it again one of those mantras accepted as true
In the web's collective minds? Or is it really the case?
Because I can't explain why an entire industry would be
Using 2 "standarts" if there is something better out there.
 
Cineform alienated RED early on, and made RED close down the codec.
(The guys from cineform were really active here until that happened).

They started offering alternate debayering to RED, and that didn't really fly well with RED.
 
Yeah, I saw that too. It was like if we
Could open R3Ds in Arriraw converter...
Quite politicaly incorrect...lol

So, if I understand, it became sort of PP
"standart" or "default", just like DNX is for Avid.
 
Cineform used to be a premium codec, almost the only one except R3D that uses wavelet compression.
GoPro the camera company was so successful that it bought out cineform and now gives the codec away with the aim of establishing a popular cross platform video compression standard. Adobe jumped on the bandwagon.

This means that PC users can use a codec that's as good as ProRes444 with alpha (in 32bit), in native AVI, without having to put up with the PITA that is Quicktime. No wonder it's catching on.
 
But for free? I saw that their license costs 300 bucks
 
Haven't looked lately, but $300 for a stand alone license sounds about right. AdobeCC is hardly free and the value of the CineForm codec is included therein. If you're running Scratch then you do have to throw down some extra coin for specific plug-ins/helper apps that are not in the package natively. Depending on the platform choices of the key players in the post pipeline, $300 for CineForm might be worth the cost on just one project.

Cheers - #19
 
Cineform, the codec, got SMPTE standardized last year, as VC-5.

https://www.smpte.org/news-events/n...ium-pro-eol_052015&utm_term=&ExactTarget=true

This year GoPro discontinued the 'GoPro Studio Premium' and 'Professional' versions of their software, leaving just the free version available.

From their announcement ( http://cineform.com/ ) -

"Is the CineForm codec supported in Adobe Products?

GoPro Studio Premium and Professional include CineForm codec plugins for Adobe Premiere Pro CS6.

Adobe Creative Cloud 2014.1 releases of After Effects, Premiere Pro, and Adobe Media Encoder all ship with native CineForm encode and decode. For more information, please visit Adobe.com here.


Does the free version of Studio support 4K editing?

On Windows, 4K compatibility is included on the latest version of GoPro Studio, available for free here.


Does the free version of Studio include the same codec features as Premium and Pro?

On Windows, the ability to encode into the GoPro CineForm codec at 10-bit 4:2:2, 4:4:4 and 4:4:4:4 color depth using third party applications is included in the latest version of GoPro Studio. The Filmscan 1 and Filmscan 2 quality settings are also available. On Windows systems, this support is currently limited to Video for Windows encoding tools with DirectShow support coming soon."
 
Thank you for the info Les.

What tools are people using that support VC-5 natively? Can the codec be downloaded and imported into one's editor/finisher of choice and used freely?

Is anyone seeing VC-5 specced on deliverables contracts?

Cheers - #19
 
I have similar questions myself, but no answers.

It's one thing to have the codec included with the freeware GoPro software, but surely GoPro/Cineform should make the VC-5 codec available elsewhere too (beyond having the encode/decode capability included with the latest Adobe software).

The 'Premium' and 'Professional' versions of the 'GoPro Studio' software were only discontinued a couple of months ago though, with technical support continuing until December 2015, so maybe GoPro/Cineform need a bit more time to work on a better supported stand-alone version of their VC-5 codec, similar to what Cineform had before they were incorporated into GoPro.

For example, an updated version of the Cineform FirstLight program/app would be handy and could increase VC-5 adoption, if it included more transcoding options than the old one. Haven't used it for ages, but it was similar in some ways to Redcine-X, allowing minor colour correction and re-encoding.

Seems to me though like Gopro/Cineform would have to do all that work, along with integrating their codec into third party software, while also working first and foremost as a division of GoPro. Not sure how that would work out in regards to increasing the more widespread use of VC-5, especially considering how entrenched some of the other codecs are in the higher-end workflows.
 
Les- Are you sure that GoPro/CineForm is the only source? Not saying that they're not, just asking. Because, if getting VC-5 widely supported, requires GoPro to spend money on something that won't show up on the bottom line...

Cheers - #19
 
All I know is what was announced on the GoPro/Cineform site - http://cineform.com/

So, as far as I know, at this point the only place to get the codec (if you didn't have it already) is via the 'GoPro Studio' freeware, or via it's native inclusion in the Adobe CC software.

If it's available elsewhere, I'm not seeing it.

Not sure how that corresponds either with the SMPTE announcement from last year where it was stated - "...the core technology behind the GoPro CineForm Codec has been standardized by the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers® (SMPTE®) as the SMPTE ST 2073 VC-5 video compression standard – the new open codec standard for video acquisition and post production..."

I could be mistaken, but I would have thought that 'open' aspect of it meant it was open to re-packaging and redistribution by third parties. Maybe it's not as simple as that and licensing fees and obligations still apply, or maybe it's just a case of no-one being interested enough to pick it up and run with it, I don't know.

As far as ongoing development of the codec, it says in the official announcement that "GoPro plans to continue support and refinement of the codec." What that really means, I'm not sure.

But yeah, it does raise the question of what Cineform can do with the codec while remaining a division of GoPro.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Cineform alienated RED early on, and made RED close down the codec.
(The guys from cineform were really active here until that happened).

They started offering alternate debayering to RED, and that didn't really fly well with RED.
Click to expand...

And now gopro owns cineform, another pioneer in camera tech. Could something happen now?
 
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