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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Anyone see the new Canon 18-80 announced today?

I think this lens is a good value, but in response to the title thread, no, this is definitely not the perfect run n' gun lens. T4.4 actually makes it a total deal-breaker for most run n' gun docs. That's just too slow when you have unpredictable lighting conditions. I understand why you guys say it's good for the price point, but the reality is that more often than not, productions that can only afford a $5000 lens are usually the productions that most need fast lenses, because they usually can't afford adequate lighting packages or professional DI work.

I agree that this lens could be most useful for live events that have plenty of light, like sports.
 
Julio Quintana said:
T4.4 actually makes it a total deal-breaker for run n' gun docs. That's just too slow when you have unpredictable lighting conditions. I understand why you guys say it's good for the price point, but the reality is that more often than not, productions that can only afford a $5000 lens are usually the productions that most need fast lenses, because they usually can't afford adequate lighting packages or professional DI work.

I agree that this lens could be most useful for live events that have plenty of light, like sports.
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i would say i agree, there is so much i like about this lens concept, it would amazing if sigma did this with their fast lenses. i asked gl optics about rehousing in such a way that we keep our auto modes and have manual modes, and their answer was, yes, see me at nab….so????
anyway, i did a doc for the past few years and mostly shot on my 5D, and mostly used the 24-105 L series lens because of the range, but i still struggled going into normally lit rooms with a F4 lens, so i have to see how this pans out, but they are finally getting the pricing right!
also, ive been seeing these 15-47 cne zooms starting to go for about 10k on ebay, which is a HUGE price drop from new, and i was wondering why, this might be why.
 
For a A7s F4 is fine since a stop is a stop - F4 @ISO 2500 and done. On a RED . . . not so much since it is a true movie camera which likes movie like lighting. Depends where your work is
 
Zeb B said:
For a A7s F4 is fine since a stop is a stop - F4 @ISO 2500 and done. On a RED . . . not so much since it is a true movie camera which likes movie like lighting. Depends where your work is
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True, but Weapon looking clean at 2000 ISO (on Standard OLPF), so who knows. Even more with Lowlight.

We shot 1280 on Skintone last week, on a CF Weapon, and it looked AMAZING.

These are new times!!
 
The T4.4. has many consequences:

AGAINST: yes, in low light situations you will need to compensate with higher ISO. Canon's Cinema EOS line should be able to handle that (assumed design target).

FOR: Price, size and weight of lens. It also probably contributes to the parfocal design in that size category. And it will act as a safeguard and help lots of people (who don't realize they need help) keep stuff in focus.

On a separate note, and this is probably way too much to ask for… when you (not aimed at anyone special—just generally) say:

"This lens won't work at all" instead try "This lens won't work at all for me"
"Woah, this lens is way too slow!" instead try "Woah, this lens is way too slow to use on a RED!"

That is, if you feel you need to do broad sweeping statements at all. Nobody will ever argue about your subjective views, since they are your own, but when the subjective part is left out it becomes more of an objective truth and that starts to rub people the wrong way… and then we all end up in the rabbit hole…
 
With all the money you save on the glass you can buy some lights and drag those around with you while the Run and Gun. :)

seriously though, in my doc world t4.4 would never cut it. But I could see it as a daylight all rounder for sports and such. The very definition of run and gun (to me at least) means moving inside and outside and being ready for both. 2.8 is the limit on this. When I run and gun, I usually carry three leightweight 2.8 Nikon zooms covering from 17mm to 200mm with 24-70 being a great "inbetweener".
Also lightweight and excellent glass and keeps the dragon rig quite light.

i might throw a couple of fast, small, primes in the bag to keep me covered as well.

David
 
I suppose when I originally stated "perfect run and gun lens", I guess I meant it more from a good doc zoom range, IS, parfocal, servo driven, lightweight, high IQ, reasonable T stop, low cost point of view - which really does tick a lot of run and gun related boxes. But of course there is no perfect lens, and the word perfect is pretty inflammatory at the best of times haha. But balancing focal range, IS, weight and price of this Canon, it's an impressive combination - just not for a one lens set up for every shooting scenario. Full disclosure, I rarely ever shoot nights and if I do, I have fast primes and zooms for it, and if I need anything ridiculous I have an A7sII also. Still, with the LLO and STD OLPF's opening up the night a little more for RED shooters, and if you're finishing in 1080p - you could possibly push the ISO a reasonable amount.

Interestingly, the image circle of the lens is just a hair smaller than that of the Weapon at 6KHD.
 
Phil Scanlan said:
I suppose when I originally stated "perfect run and gun lens", I guess I meant it more from a good doc zoom range, IS, parfocal, servo driven, lightweight, high IQ, reasonable T stop, low cost point of view - which really does tick a lot of run and gun related boxes. But of course there is no perfect lens, and the word perfect is pretty inflammatory at the best of times haha. But balancing focal range, IS, weight and price of this Canon, it's an impressive combination - just not for a one lens set up for every shooting scenario. Full disclosure, I rarely ever shoot nights and if I do, I have fast primes and zooms for it, and if I need anything ridiculous I have an A7sII also. Still, with the LLO and STD OLPF's opening up the night a little more for RED shooters, and if you're finishing in 1080p - you could possibly push the ISO a reasonable amount.

Interestingly, the image circle of the lens is just a hair smaller than that of the Weapon at 6KHD.
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And remember that on DRAGON sensors (WEAPON or EPIC) 5.5K HD is just a hair smaller than 6K HD--more like 3% instead of the presumed/assumed 10%. Strange, but true. So don't be afraid to use the full-sized 5.5K HD if you don't like the dark corners of the undersized 6K HD.
 
t4.4..

Hmm... it's a bit too dark, but it def work for run and gun.

Think of Sony's 18-105 servo lens. it's F4.0(T.stop would be darker)

I have used it with FS7 extensively.

T 4.0 - 5.6 Range is just perfect for getting "good amount of information through out depth of the field"

Out door night, or very dark interior, you def need prime lens anyway, in that case, this lens is super appealing to me. (2.8 is not enough any way....)

I can see this lens will be sold like hot cake in News, Doc, Corporation video production companies.
 
Minu makes a good point that even T2.8 would be too slow for dark scenes. OTOH, outdoors or near a decent sized window, T4.4 should be fine. It's easy to point out the limitations of this lens, but even if you could get T2.8 for $5K - it would be much larger and heavier - hardly a positive for run'n'gun.

Cheers - #19
 
Despite the unacceptable speed (for me) of this zoom, I truly hope this marks the beginning of a new era of affordable cinema-friendly zooms. I'd be powerless against a T2.8 version...
 
I was just researching that camera (Canon ME20F-SH) and thought, well, here we have a very high ISO HD box with twice the ISO rating of the C300. It has ND and SDI. Stick a Sound devices PIX-E5 with audio option on it and when needed a 3rd party EVF like the new smaller Zacuto Eye. You would have a very compact, high quality HD rig. Pull off all the peripherals, mount and power it off your Ronin with a wide prime and the PIX-E5 and and you have a lightweight, very versatile rig. Too bad they could not have gone just a bit higher than 60 fps though.
 
Craig Meadows said:
I was just researching that camera (Canon ME20F-SH) and thought, well, here we have a very high ISO HD box with twice the ISO rating of the C300. It has ND and SDI. Stick a Sound devices PIX-E5 with audio option on it and when needed a 3rd party EVF like the new smaller Zacuto Eye. You would have a very compact, high quality HD rig. Pull off all the peripherals, mount and power it off your Ronin with a wide prime and the PIX-E5 and and you have a lightweight, very versatile rig. Too bad they could not have gone just a bit higher than 60 fps though.
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Basically the same scenario would apply to an A7s/A7s II with a metabones and then you'd have a 4K option and 120fps in a pinch.
 
For the type of shooting I'm involved in, I'm always in the 1.2 - 2.8 range because of light or the way I want it to look, so 4.0 is a no-go for me. I wouldn't mind SLR lenses so much except that the focus throw is stupidly small. Has anyone else tried the Tamron primes? Got the 35 and it's crazy good.
 
i do like that he said this is the first one in the line and there will be more.
id go for shorter range with faster stop, like a 24-70mm f2.8
 
Now know why I bought a Red Pro 18-85 Zoom (for $6000. Battle Tested) ... and love it.
 
jordan levy said:
i do like that he said this is the first one in the line and there will be more.
id go for shorter range with faster stop, like a 24-70mm f2.8
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That's awesome there's gonna be more. If they made a CN-E 24-70 f/2.8 they'd sell a ton.
 
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Levi Arnold said:
For the type of shooting I'm involved in, I'm always in the 1.2 - 2.8 range because of light or the way I want it to look, so 4.0 is a no-go for me. I wouldn't mind SLR lenses so much except that the focus throw is stupidly small. Has anyone else tried the Tamron primes? Got the 35 and it's crazy good.
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Forward me the info on that T1.2 Zoom when able ;-)
 
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