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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Anyone been working on automating AVID workflows here

I'm editing a feature on Avid right now, first time using media composer, I'm interested in any tips as well. I have to say it was intimidating but I'm REALLY enjoying Avid. Not as hard moving from premier as i thought it would be
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Are you referring to roundtripping?
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nope.

Working on this:
http://poparteu.github.io/

And setting up post workflows in addition to the live chain.

To make post work fluently, we need to get a lot of on-set (and logging and editorial) metadata directly glued to the files and keeping it as production moves forward.
And we have done this for Premiere, giving people sync'ed logging projects as a "bonus" of automating our metadata into the projects and hooking them directly to the files, so we can re-connect to the relevant metadata when doing VFX exports:

https://vimeo.com/138924659
(Disclaimer, what is shown here is a beta, and we haven't started working on the GUI, still locking down features for the first larger production we'll be on. As we're working fullspeed on this, the demo is already dated, but the concept is pretty clear)

The logging-conform creates sequences named by scene/slate/take, and those entries the logger need to look at manually (like with vari-speed), are sorted out in separate bins.
Our client has estimated that this function alone saves them for 3-4 hours a day per camera per production.
So I guess it is a bit valuable

And I want to do something similar for AVID users (and FCPX after that)

As I see it now we might approach it through AAF and an AVID import/export plugin, but I'd love to discuss this with someone who knows the AVID structure inside out (which I don't) before spending too much time barking up the wrong tree.

We need to do it in a way so the metadata hangs with the files after edit and be able to export the edit in a way so metadata is still connected with the files. EDL will not do that.

G
 
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Very impressive as far as the metadata part goes.

Im also intrigued by the Popart side of things, an old love of mine CGI ;)

Where do I sign up for beta?


In regards to Avid Ive worked on a feature that was cut on it but I had no hand in setting it up.
I do use it at day job for corporate monkey stuff.
Anything specific you need to know?
Never used it for dailies but have extensive AMA workflows and currently running the 4K version and so far so good.
 
Ah, interesting. Well, Michael Philips knows Avid inside and out more than anyone else I know so hopefully he'll provide the insight for you.
Looks like you've got some cool concepts going on there.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Ah, interesting. Well, Michael Philips knows Avid inside and out more than anyone else I know so hopefully he'll provide the insight for you.
Looks like you've got some cool concepts going on there.
Click to expand...


Agreed.

He's saved my ass a few times on CreativeCow :)
 
Thanks guys.

The Beta for the "Flow" application (which maybe will be renamed), I hope we will roll out in October.
We build it modularilly, so that people can buy the functions they need.
It's an incredible copy/structure tool, which I think ANYONE working with production can use, scaleable up to multi-copy to many projects simultaniously and structuring them all (as an ingest tool in a larger production house), with a lot of automated goodies.

Beta for Popart... That would be to let us into a major set. We're out on sets in Norway and France already in small-scale. First "scaling to full-scale previz" production we enter starts in November. from next year, I guess it's interesting to go into less predictable productions than the three months on that production will be.
There won't be a downloadanle "Beta" for Popart-previz, as it is a pretty complex (yet easy to use) system. I might come around demoing it in relevant productions, though.

The logging/sync'ing projects demands some on-set input. For now we're working with movieslate on that. Both automatic capture of RED/ARRI camera-data, and also manual script-note inputs, + workflow/scene/slate specific info. (it also records the changes you do with say: Foolcontrol.

Then we have a synchronizing part, to synchronize things that come in from second-units long after the current production day, and get that into the same basic project structure.

And on the other end a lot of nice exports based on edit decissions and the metadata, and what belongs to VFX bundles.

I think EVERYONE actually need the ingest tool. All working in anything but one-man-bands could use the logging/sync'oing tool. The exports... then we get closer to the popart specific stuff, but we need to take care of the previous steps to make the last one work.
 
We Jam Synced 2 dragons during production and did the sync in redcine-X Pro then export for DNxHD, everything is working out amazingly. I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing. This was my first film we had the budget for 2 cameras but taking the time to address the sync issue on set was huge for us.
 
Matthew Quinn said:
We Jam Synced 2 dragons during production and did the sync in redcine-X Pro then export for DNxHD, everything is working out amazingly. I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing. This was my first film we had the budget for 2 cameras but taking the time to address the sync issue on set was huge for us.
Click to expand...

This would work just great and isn't exactly what we're doing here.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
We need to do it in a way so the metadata hangs with the files after edit and be able to export the edit in a way so metadata is still connected with the files. EDL will not do that.

G
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It sounds like you haven't worked with Avid a lot. One of the primary reasons Avid has remained very dominant in studio level production is because of the very things you're talking about. All metadata that is brought in via an ALE is retained in the Avid database and available both visibly (by specifying which columns you want to see in the bin) and invisibly (it lives in the database permanently). Any sequence you assemble can be broken down into its component shots, and any and all metadata recovered on a per shot or even per frame basis. You can even consolidate the media following ALE import/merge and the metadata will be in the headers of the actual media files, just in case the project gets corrupted or destroyed. The beauty of all of this is that to get metadata into the program, you just create an ALE that refers to each shot by tape name (or source file) and time code. There are a lot of "standard" column headings that are already predefined, but you can create custom headings of your own that can be named anything you want. That is commonly done for sound channel names, but it is also done for things like lens, LUTs, ISO, White Balance, and a lot of other camera settings that are of interest to visual effects artists. R3Ds have a lot of these things already, and for Arriraw shows it's usually collected by Codex and passed on in a supplemental ALE that Codex's software generates. But the beauty of Avid is that all of this is collected in one place, directly related to the original clips, and available on demand.

I'm sure Michael can help you out with resources that can make better use of this for you, but I would suggest just looking at Resolve, the cheapest thing out there. It can generate any metadata it finds in the files as part of the ALE export, which would give you a lot of what you're trying to collect separately. Colorfront applications also do this, as does Assimilate Scratch. So there are a lot of ways to get what you're asking for.
 
Hi Mike

Thanks!

Yes you're right, I haven't used AVID a lot, and thus I rather ask silly questions, than pretend to be a pro. I usually do a lot I don't know before I have done it, and learn a bit on the go.

The issue with ALE I can see from what I have been looking into them is that they cannot connect to timed metadata (keyframed changes). Now arrest me if that is wrong.
We have a way to get around that with the FCP7 xml, and can implement keyframed transform from set to post, added at any stage in the editorial.

The other thing I am looking at is the assembling of logging projects the way the video shows, based on manual and automatic metadata from set.

But I will dive further into the ALE system than we've done so far. Now we just use them when we want to conform MXF's into say Premiere.

So you're saying I can set up a full project based on a fileset with the ALE files? (Definig bins for different uses, creating sequences and laying down a structure for a project)?


Thanks a lot for your answer!
And I have approached Michael about this.

BTW.
I am totally aware of AVIDs superior standing in lareger production environments. And that's one of the places we are going with the popart project, so I have to get my feet wet on this.

Some of the idea is to be able to automaticaly ingest metadata from set into the editor. Including dynamic/keyframed metadata.
Not talking about the metadata baked in the R3D's, BTW. We get them from other TC synced input sources.

Appreciate the help!
 
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