Anybody know this problem - Scarlet-X dead!

[Jonas Kvist Jensen]

My trusty old Scarlet-X broke down today. I'm truly hoping that someone knows if this is somehow fixable.

What happened was this. The camera was running, on battery, hooked up to an HDMI monitor, as we did some light adjustments. That's when we noticed some weird black vertical lines on the monitor. They clearly showed up on the histogram as well, so it wasn't just a monitor-fluke.
We decided that a reboot would be just the thing. It wasn't though :-(
As we turned the camera back on nothing appeared on screen, and since then we haven't been able to get a picture. The LED next to the power-button turns yellow, and stays yellow. The fan starts up, but seems to do a little hickup (speed change) every few seconds. The camera just stays like that now, until you press and hold the power button to kill it, or unplug it.
We tried doing a hard reset (holding the button for 30+ seconds), but that doesn't seem to work. We also tried a firmware update, but that also doesn't take.

I'm worried. Any opinions?

 

[Jonas Kvist Jensen]

Thanks. I'll look into that.

 

[Joshua Wilson]

My trusty old Scarlet-X broke down today. I'm truly hoping that someone knows if this is somehow fixable.

What happened was this. The camera was running, on battery, hooked up to an HDMI monitor, as we did some light adjustments. That's when we noticed some weird black vertical lines on the monitor. They clearly showed up on the histogram as well, so it wasn't just a monitor-fluke.
We decided that a reboot would be just the thing. It wasn't though :-(
As we turned the camera back on nothing appeared on screen, and since then we haven't been able to get a picture. The LED next to the power-button turns yellow, and stays yellow. The fan starts up, but seems to do a little hickup (speed change) every few seconds. The camera just stays like that now, until you press and hold the power button to kill it, or unplug it.
We tried doing a hard reset (holding the button for 30+ seconds), but that doesn't seem to work. We also tried a firmware update, but that also doesn't take.

I'm worried. Any opinions?

I can take a look at it the image issue you’re describing sounds like an isp

 

[Jonas Kvist Jensen]

So, just to follow up, for anybody who might come across this thread.
I sent the camera to CVP, who says that the fault is with the OMAP board, which needs replacing. Apparently this is 2000 Euro deal, so I'll have to decide whether that's worth it. It is certainly right around that point, where it might not be - not least because something else might fail next week.

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

So, just to follow up, for anybody who might come across this thread.
I sent the camera to CVP, who says that the fault is with the OMAP board, which needs replacing. Apparently this is 2000 Euro deal, so I'll have to decide whether that's worth it. It is certainly right around that point, where it might not be - not least because something else might fail next week.

I suggest that it might be worth it. OTOH... you could buy a BM Pocket 4K for about that price. It has more overexposure latitude than the MX sensor, according to this post:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?177459-KOMODO&p=1864632&viewfull=1#post1864632

MX has about 5 stops over, BMP4K has about 6. IMO, the BM will have more overall DR, too. Just an idea. BTW, I like small sensors, so it would be an easy choice for me. Some prefer S35 and wider.

 

[Nick Gardner]

Buy a z cam e2 for that much money.

Nick

 

[Cole Sprague]

I suggest that it might be worth it. OTOH... you could buy a BM Pocket 4K for about that price. It has more overexposure latitude than the MX sensor, according to this post:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?177459-KOMODO&p=1864632&viewfull=1#post1864632

MX has about 5 stops over, BMP4K has about 6. IMO, the BM will have more overall DR, too. Just an idea. BTW, I like small sensors, so it would be an easy choice for me. Some prefer S35 and wider.

The BMP4k is nowhere near 6 stops over at any ISO. In my testing I was able to get just over 4 stops at ISO 1000 and at that level the noise was horrific and unusable in the shadows. At 640, which is the max I would push the ISO without going to the Native 3200 rating, it had about 3.5 stops over. I'd fix the MX, it will be a much better camera.

 

[Eric Santiago]

There is also the cost of replacing everything that I would consider.
I have invested heavily in my RED SCARLET ECO SYSTEM and would have to buy the same (or EPIC) to keep using my investment.

 

[Mike P.]

The BMP4k is nowhere near 6 stops over at any ISO. In my testing I was able to get just over 4 stops at ISO 1000 and at that level the noise was horrific and unusable in the shadows. At 640, which is the max I would push the ISO without going to the Native 3200 rating, it had about 3.5 stops over. I'd fix the MX, it will be a much better camera.

You might be doing something wrong or have a bad copy. Are you exposing via false colour, or by the auto-exp, which seems to bring it down at least 2 extra stops (something I'd rate at f2.8 via false colour, it goes to 5.6+) Bare in mind, I'm going by what I'm seeing on the monitor/histogram/false colour and in Resolve afterward, and the p4k is hands down getting more than MX (and functionally holding its own against Dragon in the high-end).

What I've been noticing is, the difference between high colours and white are functional on P4k, but not on RED. So, for example, say the subject is wearing a white t-shirt and the high-side of his/her skin is really hot (but not blown), I can easily recover the skin just by lowering exposure, but on RED I'd have to use a secondary to get separation between the high-skin, and white shirt (else they get muddle together).

On cleanliness, mine's good to go from 100 up to 5000... Put another way, MX at 1600 is about as noisy as P4k at 5000. It blows MX out of the water in every department (granted, that's to be expected after 7 years).

There is also the cost of replacing everything that I would consider.
I have invested heavily in my RED SCARLET ECO SYSTEM and would have to buy the same (or EPIC) to keep using my investment.

Or Scarlet-Dragon or Epic-Dragon... Depending on cost of a used brain, that'd be a pretty nice upgrade.

But P4k does DCI 4k up to 60p at 3:1, ISO400 and 3200 native, has speedbooster support, records to tons of readily available inexpensive media, cheap batteries, instant-on, built-in monitor (with incredible GUI and responsive touch), built-in scratch mics, mini-XLR, stereo 3.5mm, weighs nothing, can playback at full-res on a 5 year old MBP, and comes with Resolve?! That's also a substantial upgrade from 4k 30p 6:1 and it's only $1300... And it probably comes built-in with all the EcoSystem stuff you've invested in.

 

[Jonas Kvist Jensen]

I actually decided to get it fixed, but today they came back to me with an updated quote, saying that another component was also failing and had to be replaced too. This brings to total to 3700 Euro, which I feel is much more than the actual camera is worth
Too bad - I loved my Scarlet.

I'm looking attentively at the Z Cam, but have to wait for the S35 version in October. I love the small form factor, which would make total sense for my current project. I'm worried though, that their RAW solution will be sub-par to RED's.

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

I would probably not bother fixing the Scarlet unless you really, really needed it to finish a project. What to replace it with is a very difficult question! On paper, the Sony A7rIV and A9 seem to have a lot going for them. But they're still not cheap. I'd like to know what you end up choosing.

FWIW, here is a casual look at the BM Pocket 4K:

(9:47)

 

[Jonas Kvist Jensen]

Personally I think the BMPCC looks like something Fischer Price would make That said, the specs seem convincing.
This will likely be a long process. I might end up getting a used Epic too - a lot of those seem to be floating around.

 

[Eric Santiago]

I find it odd how easily some can just say "replace it with camera xyx".
Did you all not purchase camera support for your RED?
I can only think of maybe six things that I can carry over to a different camera
My Scarlet to this day shows me how powerful 4K can be compared to what I started with.
Sure I work with 6K to 8K footage on the side, but I still find the Scarlet MX to hold its own

 

[Jonas Kvist Jensen]

Did you all not purchase camera support for your RED?

Not sure what you mean? If you are asking if I bought into a religion when getting my RED - I didn't. It was the best camera at the time, and the only thing that could deliver cinematic quality at (let's be honest, a good deal above) my budget. I'm not so sure that's the case anymore.
Also, to be frank, I'm a little disapointed that a camera purchased at the price of a small (but new) car, turned out to have a lifetime of less than 7 years. And it's not like I used it heavily or treated it rough. This camera was my baby.

EDIT: actually I got you now The above still stands, but not really an answer to you Yes, I bought all sorts of stuff to fit around the RED. But some of it, could be used on a different setup. But most of the RED-specific stuff, like side handle and SSD's wouldn't even work with a DSMC2.

 

[Mike P.]

Yeah, I dunno, Eric, that seems like bad logic. The image quality/functionality of MX is definitely not worth the cost with the alternatives currently available. Better off cutting your losses, selling all the extra support bits (even for a pittance), and using that money to purchase a camera that does more, lest you end up in a money-trap situation. (Sidenote: That's also why the RED upgrade programs didn't really seem worth it unless you were coming from a higher-end RED.)

Jonas, Fisher Price or not, if you got a BMPCC4k (plus speedbooster) to hold you over until you found a cheap used Epic, I bet you wouldn't bother following through with an Epic purchase... Hell, you'd probably upgrade to a Pocket 6k (which, if it's anything like the p4k, I'd wager is better than Epic-X). There's no harm in borrowing one; take it for a test spin, shoot some BRAW 3:1 at 60fps, and seeing if it'll do for your needs.

 

[Jonas Kvist Jensen]

Jonas, Fisher Price or not, if you got a BMPCC4k (plus speedbooster) to hold you over until you found a cheap used Epic, I bet you wouldn't bother following through with an Epic purchase... Hell, you'd probably upgrade to a Pocket 6k (which, if it's anything like the p4k, I'd wager is better than Epic-X). There's no harm in borrowing one; take it for a test spin, shoot some BRAW 3:1 at 60fps, and seeing if it'll do for your needs.

Yeah, Pocket 6K seems the way to go right now, but I'm actually in no hurry. We're not shooting until spring, so at least it died at the right time.

 

[Michael Redden]

+1 For Joshua Wilson above. He actually fixed mine last week. Pretty much the same issue as yours and it ended up being my ISP board.

 

[Eric Santiago]

Yeah, I dunno, Eric, that seems like bad logic.

If I had money coming out of my @$$ then yea I wouldn't bring it up.
But I am a struggling artist that needs to be realistic with my finances.
Until my Scarlet stops being used for Indies/Music/Corporate I will be hanging on to it
Also, where I'm from, we are a few years behind L.A. in regards to cameras.
We have WEAPONs and ARRIs here but mostly for features.

 

[Mike P.]

Wait, what? But the OP’s *is* broken. And the repair was quoted as almost *three times* the cost of a p4k (which does more and is an objectively better camera in almost every measure).

No one is saying to ditch working kit, but the OP is euchred here and it’d be supremely stupid to drop $3500US on a repair of a Scarlet-X regardless of what support kit you still have. Shit, there’s a used Scarlet package in the market place right now for <$3kCAD/$2250USD with everything (mount, 5” touch, a couple mags, etc).

 

[Eric Santiago]

Wait, what? But the OP’s *is* broken...

I jumped in due to other reasons and did not consider the op's situation.
I just see this topic come up time to time.