Any users who can comment on Raven versus Epic MX?

[Ryan Lightbourn]

A new Raven & used Epic MX kit are in the same price range, and I'm considering either/or.

Can anyone comment on the strengths weaknesses, strictly re: image (color, low light, resolution, overall magical goodness, etc)? Size & modularity differences are negligible in my case.

Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

 

[Ryan Lightbourn]

Seeing now that Raven added $3,000 to the price of a body. Used Epic it is.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Ryan - I hope I am not too late - but I would recommend the Raven. The sensor tech alone is two gen newer (and yes - Dragon in DSMC2 is far more capable then Dragon in DSMC1). You get the latest up-to-date DSMC2 body (so you can take advantage of all the new DSMC2 accessories) and a path going forward. But the best part about Raven is that you don't have to crop the sensor (and therefore not be forced to change lens or limit your FOV) when you want to shoot high-speed all the way up to 120 fps. The Epic gives you an extra 0.5K, but the Raven makes up for this in higher dynamic range and less noise. Go with the Raven - you won't regret...

:sifone: Peter

 

[Ryan Lightbourn]

Ryan - I hope I am not too late - but I would recommend the Raven. The sensor tech alone is two gen newer (and yes - Dragon in DSMC2 is far more capable then Dragon in DSMC1). You get the latest up-to-date DSMC2 body (so you can take advantage of all the new DSMC2 accessories) and a path going forward. But the best part about Raven is that you don't have to crop the sensor (and therefore not be forced to change lens or limit your FOV) when you want to shoot high-speed all the way up to 120 fps. The Epic gives you an extra 0.5K, but the Raven makes up for this in higher dynamic range and less noise. Go with the Raven - you won't regret...

:sifone: Peter

Thanks for the advice Peter; I would actually have pulled the trigger based off your advice, but I can get a used Epic kit for around $5,000 less than a new Raven kit (didn't realize they bumped up the price of the Raven body to $9,000). Epic is well worth it at that much of a difference, especially since I'm shooting 2X anamorphic & would get 5K 4:3 w/ Epic, versus about 3.5K with Raven (after cropping the sides since it tops out at 2160 height @ 4.5K).

 

[Craig Lees]

Plus no PL mount on raven either, not sure 2x anamorphic without that is gonna happen!

Craig Lees
UK

 

[Ryan Lightbourn]

Plus no PL mount on raven either, not sure 2x anamorphic without that is gonna happen!

Craig Lees
UK

I have the latest Rectilux and a an FM Lens from Anamorphic Shop, so I'm actually using Leica R -> Canon, but yeah.... not taking the Raven route because of the $3,000 price increase.

 

[AndreasOberg]

Epic has a few benefits. It has quite a bit higher resolution. If your output is 16:9 then the Raven is really only 3.8k and not 4.5k.
The Epic MX has quite a bit less noise. Epic also has more buttons on the body which I like.
Raven also has a crazy high crop factor. Its about 1.9x when you film UHD compared to canon so if you have a 16mm lens you get about 30mm so its very tricky to get wide angle shots. The Epic has about 1.45 crop factor if I remember correctly.
PL mount can be useful if you need it. We rarely use ours.
However, Raven is FAR lighter to carry.

Benefits with Raven
+ A LOT Lighter
+ Better colors
+ new body standard
+ it can be repaired
+ Better memory cards
+ probably more stable time code

Epic MX
+ Less noise
+ Sharper image due to higher resolution
+ Better crop factor
+ PL mount
+ More customizable buttons
+ It has sound input (not very good one), some of the Raven configurations does not have this

Hope that helps. Both are great cameras, but myself I rather film with our Epic because of sharpness and noise (and I have used both quite a bit).
Andreas

 

[Ryan Lightbourn]

Thanks Andreas. I already pulled the trigger on the Epic! Image was the only thing I was interested in, so the Epic took the cake (ended up paying less than $9K for the entire kit).

 

[Björn Benckert]

There is a lot off nice , proven assessories for epic being sold cheap as people switched to dsmc2.
If it got the older standard of mags, the pre minimag type, then you can get much more used media for the same cost just as an example.

And with redwidegamutrgb epiccolor sience is far better than it used to be.

Also Nikon mount, FD, leica and so on with the larger sensorsize I would pick MX if it sold for the same price.

 

[Ryan Lightbourn]

There is a lot off nice , proven assessories for epic being sold cheap as people switched to dsmc2.
If it got the older standard of mags, the pre minimag type, then you can get much more used media for the same cost just as an example.

And with redwidegamutrgb epiccolor sience is far better than it used to be.

Also Nikon mount, FD, leica and so on with the larger sensorsize I would pick MX if it sold for the same price.

Absolutely Björn! I browsed Adorama's used section today and went to town (it felt like theft, considering in 2012-2013 I was purchasing many of these same accessories @ retail prices).

At the current price points, I would choose Scarlet-W over Raven in a heartbeat, but perhaps that was the strategy of such a large price increase. I can't knock Red for their business decisions; either way, I'm hooked on their images & they'll continue to make money off of me through the occasional accessory and/or future cameras.

 

[Adam Montville]

Thanks Andreas. I already pulled the trigger on the Epic! Image was the only thing I was interested in, so the Epic took the cake (ended up paying less than $9K for the entire kit).

To boost image quality further (especially in high frame rates), see if you can get the Mini-Mag SSD for the Epic. It's $1,500 in the RED store right now, and get Mini-Mags instead. This will give you several notches better Compression ratios in every frame rate.

 

[Mike P.]

To boost image quality further (especially in high frame rates), see if you can get the Mini-Mag SSD for the Epic. It's $1,500 in the RED store right now, and get Mini-Mags instead. This will give you several notches better Compression ratios in every frame rate.

Is that detailed info written anywhere (specifically for Epic-X and Scarlet-X with mini-mags)? I know the (now defunct?) 512gb red coloured full-sized mags offered better compression ratio too, but I thought it was literally one notch and only at speed (e.g. 5:1 instead of 6:1 at 4kFF/24, while 4kWS was still only 5:1 regardless of mags used.)

 

[Adam Montville]

Is that detailed info written anywhere (specifically for Epic-X and Scarlet-X with mini-mags)? I know the (now defunct?) 512gb red coloured full-sized mags offered better compression ratio too, but I thought it was literally one notch and only at speed (e.g. 5:1 instead of 6:1 at 4kFF/24, while 4kWS was still only 5:1 regardless of mags used.)

http://docs.red.com.s3.amazonaws.co...n Guide/Content/B_REDCODE/EPIC_MX_REDCODE.htm

Looks like it all depends on which size of 1.8" and mini, but starting with the 480GB mini's, that's where you get the best compression numbers. Also keep in mind, from me following around on this forum for a few years, Epic-MX cameras don't have the "improved REDCODE" that the Epic Dragon offers. Correct me if I'm wrong, so higher REDCODE starts to hurt the image faster on MX cameras. Maybe it was ported over from newer firmware though?