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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Any updates on Scarlet release dates?

D

Daniel Valle

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I've been hearing rumors (gotta love those) that Scarlet is looking more like a 2011 release.

I'm really hoping that this isn't true. With MX finished and already on people's hands, Scarlet can't be that far off... can it?

I'm truly at a crossroads. I own an HPX 170 that has served me well in the last 18 months, but it's losing value every minute.

At the same time I don't want to jump on the 5D wagon, specially with all the compromises it has and the lack of pro sound (which is the real deal breaker to me).

I could my HPX it and put that money aside for Scarlet, but I can't be cameraless.

The time is so ripe for Scarlet...
 
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I guess we will learn more around NAB time. Hopefully Tattoos are under way and the production cameras not too far behind by then.
 
Nobody knows for sure, even Red.
But before they ship the Scarlets, they need to get the early prototypes working as intended (that's where they are right now, first 5K picture from an Epic posted a few days ago, but they said there is still a lot of work to be done before Tattoos).
Then they need to produce the 25 Tattoo prototypes, wait for feedback, get rid of the bugs, wait for feedback, change what needs to be changed on the hardware side, wait for feedback, until they consider everything is ready for primetime. They said they would take the time to make it right, so this stage will probably take at least a few months.
Then Stage 2.
Then Stage 3.
That's probably a few thousands of Epics to deliver. Even if they are faster than with the Red One, it will still take months to fullfill all the orders.
And then, Scarlets.

So maybe I'm wrong, but yes, I think you won't see (many) Scarlets before 2011.
Remember, it always takes longer than it should, and the last few percent take the longest to finish.
Just look back at the October and November announcements. Stage 2 was planed for "early 2010". Early 2010 is nearly over, and we're still waiting for the Stage 1 to start.
Red Ray Pro was announced for Jan/Feb 2010. No news.

What I'm saying is, things always take longer than expected. If you need a camera now, buy a 5D or a 7D (they are cheap), and sell it when the Scarlet comes out.
Hopefully we'll know more at NAB, but even then if they announce a schedule, don't take it for granted. There are too many unknown parameters (how many issues will be discovered during stage 1 and how long it will take to correct them, how many current owners will order Epics or Scarlets, supplier issues, etc...).
 
Daniel Valle said:
I've been hearing rumors (gotta love those) that Scarlet is looking more like a 2011 release.
Click to expand...

Yup...a lot of talk.

I'd suggest that if you need a camera and it will make money for you, go ahead and buy one. Don't wait "cameraless", because you will only get frustrated with a camera company that really doesn't owe you anything right now.

Having false expectations doesn't do any of us good.

Having also said that, just know that RED is a very brave and ambitious company...one I am blessed to be able to have a small part in observing their good times and bad.

It's been a fun ride these past 2 years...
 
Stephen Gentle said:
The thing about RED rumours is that nobody outside RED actually has any clue...
Click to expand...

..and a lot of times we, the members of REDuser have an inside look at the development process and sometimes all that RED has IS a clue.
smiley.gif
 
Daniel, I think it is best if you go ahead and upgrade for now. If you can still hang on to the HPX 170 then all and good, but if not, go ahead and get yourself that 5D or whatever other camera you have in mind for an upgrade.

As for Scarlet, yes, we don't have much clue. NAB 2010 should reveal a bit more. When we don't have much information, it is best to not hold your breath.
 
I wouldn't be so quick to consider the 5D/7D an upgrade from the 170. The only "upgrade" is shallower depth of field. In every other respect, it's a less-capable camera for video. A 5D will also lose value over time. Do you already own the lenses you'd need for the 5D? If not, then by the time you buy the lenses and aks you'd need to do real video work with the camera, you'll have quite a lot invested, and it will still be a compromised video camera.

The 170 will serve just fine for another 6-12 months. Unless you have a compelling business need for a 5D that will pay for it, my advice would be to sit tight and wait for the camera you really want.

If you need a still camera, then buy a 5D/7D and you'll have that available to use where it is appropriate.
 
For sure, at this point, wait for NAB. Canon might have a trick up their sleeves. They have to at this point. After the dSLRs have come out I can't imagine them selling many XLH1's. i wrote a blog about how I don't think those without a RED ONE will see an S35 Scarlet until 2011. It was a pessimistic post after seeing the push in release dates. We are well over 1 year late at this point. I think we'll see fixed version in Fall of 2010, hopefully late summer. Again, I'll take earlier, but I don't think that will happen. Heck I'd take now if possible.

Don't forget that RED ONE owners get priority on the scarlets so you won't be able to get one until they have their chance. PLUS they are not shipping scarlet until after Epic-X has been delivered to RED ONE OWNERS (That could change, I hope) so you have to wait until Epic-x is delivered AND Scarlet Fixed is delivered before you can get in line.

Which is why I bit the bullet and bought a RED ONE, even after the Oct cut off. Not that I didn't try, it's just a budget cycle thing and I couldn't get funds until after that date.

Also, you won't see an S35 Scarlet until 2011. They don't even have a prototype for one, and at RED DAY they didn't even have a hardware mockup.

I've been shooting with my 5d's a lot and use it for so many things. It's especially great for a wide angle shots to mix in with HD footage.
 
Working prototypes at NAB would certainly be a positive sign. Hopefully a Scarlet 2/3" prototype will be among them.

S35 Scarlet may have to wait until the initial demand rush for Epics is satisfied since it shares a common sensor, but there should be no such restriction on the 2/3" models. The 2/3" release should depend mostly on how fast they can set up the necessary staff to support QC, packaging and delivery of orders. Both lines should ramp up deliveries faster than Red 1 did as they are designed more for mass manufacturing and marketing.
It is by any measure though a daunting task to bring a complete camera system like this to market. Delays are to be expected.
 
Thomas Koch said:
Also, you won't see an S35 Scarlet until 2011. They don't even have a prototype for one, and at RED DAY they didn't even have a hardware mockup.
Click to expand...

I have no information that would cause me to disagree with Thomas' overall analysis or his conclusions. That said, it did occur to me: isn't the Scarlet S35 "just" an MX sensor in a Scarlet body? Not to suggest it is a trivial task, but once the MX sensor is in production and the Scarlet 2/3" is being delivered, won't the the Scarlet S35 be somewhat easier to bring to market?
 
Terry VerHaar said:
I have no information that would cause me to disagree with Thomas' overall analysis or his conclusions. That said, it did occur to me: isn't the Scarlet S35 "just" an MX sensor in a Scarlet body? Not to suggest it is a trivial task, but once the MX sensor is in production and the Scarlet 2/3" is being delivered, won't the the Scarlet S35 be somewhat easier to bring to market?
Click to expand...

The Scarlet S35 will have a slightly different body to the 2/3" (slightly larger). But yes, I see what you mean. Once they master the S35 M-X to a certain extent, I would assume the 2/3" M-X would become an easier task as well. Now, this is assuming 2/3" M-X is simply a cut out of the S35 M-X. I.e. die harvesting, something done with semiconductor chips.

I think the Scarlet S35 is more complex than it looks though. The body will be different, like I mentioned, but also, the hardware will be more powerful than the 2/3" but less powerful than the Epic (as per the lower speeds, bitrates, etc.) It looks more like an all new product than a Epic S35 in a Scarlet 2/3".
 
D Fuller said:
I wouldn't be so quick to consider the 5D/7D an upgrade from the 170. The only "upgrade" is shallower depth of field. In every other respect, it's a less-capable camera for video.
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What about latitude, color rendition, sensitivity? People keep insisting these DSLRs have small latitude, which may be true for highlights, but in the shadows... they have an ass-ton. I agree the 5D and 7D suck as "video cameras", they are more like motion image cameras... So treat them as such. Don't let anyone kid you though, these cameras legitimately look like film... if used properly. I Just projected a music video I shot the other day it was amazing blown up on screen. And, besides, it's better to start learning how to shoot in 35mm format with these camers so that when you get your hands on a s35 scarlet or epic you won't embarrass yourself with poor footage.

Daniel Valle said:
At the same time I don't want to jump on the 5D wagon, specially with all the compromises it has and the lack of pro sound (which is the real deal breaker to me).
Click to expand...
As for sound... DSLR's suck. But that's a good thing, because you should be shooting dual system anyways. Don't be fooled into thinking Scarlet will have pro sound. Pro sound means shooting on a separate system with a sound guy, mixers, compressors, and post work.
 
Thomas Koch said:
Also, you won't see an S35 Scarlet until 2011. They don't even have a prototype for one, and at RED DAY they didn't even have a hardware mockup.
Click to expand...

You might not see S35 Scarlet before 2011, but others will.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
You might not see S35 Scarlet before 2011, but others will.

Jim
Click to expand...

I see optimism in this quote.

So.........hopefully I will see a S35 Scarlet before 2011.
However, seeing is not the same as owning one.

So........I hope to own one this Summer.
 
Thomas Koch said:
Don't forget that RED ONE owners get priority on the scarlets so you won't be able to get one until they have their chance. PLUS they are not shipping scarlet until after Epic-X has been delivered to RED ONE OWNERS (That could change, I hope) so you have to wait until Epic-x is delivered AND Scarlet Fixed is delivered before you can get in line.
Click to expand...

Does anyone actually know if early adopters really will get first choice on Scarlet? I have some vague memory of reading this on the upgrade sections of the FAQs on the main RED website but that was before they were removed just prior to the October 30th Announcement. Since then, I don't recall reading any official word on this - has anyone who is actually associated with RDC said or explicitly stated this somewhere?

If early adopters do get priority on Scarlet orders then once you factor in the completion of the M-X upgrade programme and the three EPIC stages, 2011 doesn't sound that unrealistic at all for non-RED users.
 
Bryce O said:
What about latitude, color rendition, sensitivity? People keep insisting these DSLRs have small latitude, which may be true for highlights, but in the shadows... they have an ass-ton. I agree the 5D and 7D suck as "video cameras", they are more like motion image cameras... So treat them as such. Don't let anyone kid you though, these cameras legitimately look like film... if used properly. I Just projected a music video I shot the other day it was amazing blown up on screen. And, besides, it's better to start learning how to shoot in 35mm format with these camers so that when you get your hands on a s35 scarlet or epic you won't embarrass yourself with poor footage.
Click to expand...

The HPX170 has I think been tested to have at least as much dynamic range as the 5d in video mode. In any case, I did a shoot with both, and the footage certainly cut together well and the only real difference was the DOF. (And the fact I could do slow-mo on the HPX) The HPX is pretty sensitive, and its noise looks way better than the 5d's noise...the HPX's noise can pass as more like grain, whereas the 5d's noise turns into colorful static. They're both good cameras, but I'd say you'd have to look at your specific needs to determine which is better. I personally loved having both with me on the shoot.

Anyway, sorry to go off topic. I really hope Scarlet comes sooner than later. I'd love to get a fixed lens Scarlet to celebrate graduating. :)
 
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