Any Speed Heads Amoung us?

[John Bannister]

Hey team,

I was wondering if anyone out there has had experience shooting speedway, moto x or any other vehicle based racing events?

I have a 4x4 shoot next year and I am doing some preliminary research as to how would be the best system and fps etc to capture this event in all it's mud slinging glory. Is autofocus enabled on Epic/Scarlet and would this be the best option for high speed action such a this?

I am also looking to beg, steal or borrow a Steadicam rig for some testing,if anyone has a rig out there gathering dust, I would be very interested in renting it. It's not for a paid gig, more for my personal curiosity and experimentation.

Thanks all in advance for any info you care to share with me.

Cheers!

 

[Sergio Perez]

Hey team,

I was wondering if anyone out there has had experience shooting speedway, moto x or any other vehicle based racing events?

I have a 4x4 shoot next year and I am doing some preliminary research as to how would be the best system and fps etc to capture this event in all it's mud slinging glory. Is autofocus enabled on Epic/Scarlet and would this be the best option for high speed action such a this?

I am also looking to beg, steal or borrow a Steadicam rig for some testing,if anyone has a rig out there gathering dust, I would be very interested in renting it. It's not for a paid gig, more for my personal curiosity and experimentation.

Thanks all in advance for any info you care to share with me

Cheers.


Thanks all I really appreciate any input.

Hi sir, I'm one of them! Here's my most recent work: (shot last week)

http://vimeo.com/32508174

http://vimeo.com/32504450

Unfortunately I couldn't get my hands on time to use an Epic for this. I would assume that, taking into consideration my current workflow, a few very important things would be needed:

1st-LOTS of Redvolts. At least 7 or 8 for a full day's coverage. When shooting the above event, I only had access to sections of the track during each session, for example, I could only take the uphill shots during Formula 3 free practice (whole duration) in that section. After the session was over i could change location. So while out on track it was impossible to dump cards or charge batteries, and needed to carry everything with me. Since everything is happening LIVE, you need to be always ready. The Epic takes about 10 seconds to boot up (Correct me if I'm wrong) so I would say in this type of event you need to be always with the camera "on". That's why having lots of batteries is a plus, almost essential move.

2- At least 4x 264 SSD's. Again due to the live nature and no time to dump cards situations, you need to have media to cover the whole day if you're capture a full day long event like the GP you see in these videos.

3- Carry light: I was going SOLO in the track with a shoulder bag with Canon 70-200, 1.6x and 2x extender, 16-35, 14 2.8 ND 24 1.4, a manfrotto tripod with tripod head (519) and a Mark IV on the track. This was essential for those nice bokeh and slow motion shots of the racing on track. I would assume with an Epic you have extra weight with the camera so I would suggest using the lightest epic setup possible- no bricks, no shoulder mounts, just a top handle and a base plate and the camera either with the EVF or the LCD. In the Pit lane and the Pit area you probably have more space to use other support gear like Steadicam and dolly (like I did). However, on the track, definitely lightest setup. Some of the shots you see on this video were taken in between the rails of the circuit to get that low angle speedier image. With a heavy bulky Red One I couldn't achieve that so I assume having the lightest, shortest epic setup would be the way.

4- Frame rates. I shot everything at 50P (I'm in PAL). If I had 300fps, I would definitely shoot everything at highest quality 50p and shoot some portions at 300fps. I could speed up the 50p shots in a 25p timeline by 200 % to make it look natural. Not so sure about the 300 fps. Haven't made the calculations to how to make that look "normal speed" in a 25p timeline. I also don't know if you can record sound at 300fps on board . With 50 (or 60) fps you can have the option of having the broadcast look or the filmic look in a 24p or 25p timeline. Might be worth consideration, depending on were this footage is going!

Focus- I've been shooting with a 1D Mark IV with Manual focus, so I assume not having autofocus is not a problem, provided, of course, you aren't doing "live": because in the above videos you get some good footage, but there's definitely lots of out of focus trash shots in the can that no one will see
Anyway, the red workflow here is just what I plan to do when I use the Epic on next year's coverage. Hope someone with actually Epic Motorsport coverage can shine in and give is opinion on my suggestions...

Cheers,

Sergio

 

[John Bannister]

Wow Sergio, loved your videos! This is just what I was looking for you have shared some great information here. The only issue I am having trouble understanding is the PAL issue you mentioned. The footage I will be taking will destined for DVD here in New Zealand which is indeed a PAL system, this will the first time I have shot motion for this format so is there a concern or issue that effects the frame rates in PAL?

 

[Sergio Perez]

Wow Sergio, loved your videos! This is just what I was looking for you have shared some great information here. The only issue I am having trouble understanding is the PAL issue you mentioned. The footage I will be taking will destined for DVD here in New Zealand which is indeed a PAL system, this will the first time I have shot motion for this format so is there a concern or issue that effects the frame rates in PAL?

John, thank you for your compliments! The problem with frame rates is merely if you want to have broadcast ready 50i or 50P footage. If you shoot 50P it should look like broadcast video and you can convert that to 25P and get decent slow motion. If you shoot high speed (higher than 50P) I think (I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong) it only shows in 25P or 24P already in slow motion. But maybe I'm completely wrong! You should check this out when you get your red camera. I will definitely do that!

 

[Matt Johnston]

Hi there John,

I shoot a number of motorsport events, specifically rallying and all of the web and SpeedTV coverage for Rally America etc.. Here are a few examples from this past season:

Rally America Oregon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtDg4HasLtw&feature=channel_video_title
Rally America 100 Acre Wood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvU5X9_Tw5o&feature=relmfu

And Tall Pines rally (All DSLR instead of ENG style above)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obJUQIxY2OY

For me, I am in the woods solo from usually sunrise to well after sunset. Rallying takes place on multiple stages over a couple hundred square miles so my most important asset is pre-planning and preparation for multiple issues that may arise. For Rally America I am the only shooter, I also was doing the editing each night with a broadcast deadline, as well as doing the post-event recap videos there. Since I was the only shooter It was imperative I didn't miss much action as I wouldn't have enough coverage to build any sort of story or anything. So I would pre-plan my route well ahead of the event, and exactly how much time I could spend in each location (usually 12-18 minutes worth of cars) before having to leave for the next stage.

This obviously dictated what type of camera gear I could use. In the Tall Pines video, and before this past season I was using DSLR's for everything. With primes mostly and a Tokina 11-16. Very difficult to use under time pressed conditions, similar to RED. This season the network and others wanted ENG style as much "following the car" zooms as possible, so I switched away from DSLRS but kept a t2i in my bag for occasional shots of people and cars and things in the service area. As mentioned above power is very important. I would bring 4 batteries usually, which was ~400 minutes of run time. Plus an inverted would fly with my in my luggage for charging in the rental car while driving between stages. Important was to never underestimate issues. IE: Perhaps it is 4pm and you have only used 1 battery so you skip putting that one back on the charger because it was a hassle. That's the day that the event will go til 3am and you will be screwed. So always be 100% charged/charging and have the media to cover as well. So for RED, thats a LOT of SSDs.

I'm also big into redundancy in the field. I've been hit by stones and water and more times than I can count. Had two cameras (Panny TM700's) get bigtime wet and stop. If I miss one stage of action I'm effed. So I carry two camcorders, and then a DSLR or two, and then some DRIFT cameras etc.. With RED an EPIC body or Scarlet + something else. Anything really. 5D etc.. whatever. I would never want to be at an event and relying on just one camera.

I shoot everything at 1080p/60. Broadcast is 720p/60 and web is 720p/30. So It gives me some flexibility for all the deliverables. For the web I can do a 50% slow obviously, and for broadcast there is a sharpness increase by the downscaling. At event I make 2-3 different timelines in Premiere the day before the event and copy past 1080p/60 clips between them. I also duplicate every clip and conform to 29.97. So I have a full set of bins of regular clips, and a full set of 50% speed clips. That allows me to work faster than individually dropping a conformed clip onto the timeline and then ramping it 200% for the normal speed stuff. I love RED RAW. But that has not yet gone onto the broadcast deliverable because of time constraints. I hope to utilize it more this year with my SCARLET, but I feel the twiddling and debayering wont be able to happen til the plane ride home.

Many times I find myself not experimenting with something, since It is such a risk if the shot is not good. So you will want to test 300FPS epic shots of vehicles being played back real time with a speed increase if you plan to shoot lots of it.

What are you planning on using Steadicam for? That seems to me like it would be a rough time. If you are at a 4x4 event I am assuming you will be climbing over boulders, running ahead of rigs up hills, climbing into trees etc... Could be a hinderance to your movement. Depending on your role in production it may be better to capture lots of good (handheld, sticks, slider) clips rather than risking only capturing a few steadicam shots because you can't move fast enough.

Also - I bring lots of food, and toilet paper. Toilet paper is so important. And a few plastic grocery bags, gaff and duct tape, and 2 sets of filters. Because sometimes mine get smashed by rocks. And a fresh box of Zeiss Lens Wipes (The ones in the little bags like moist towlettes) and regular microfiber lens cloths (2-3 stored in different locations, cam backpack, jacket pocket, pants pocket - in case one gets wet or muddy) And lens hoods for all lenses. Even the cheap little rubber hoods help alot with mud or rain, or snow making it's way to your front lens element. I have a mis-matched set of Zuiko and Nikon primes, with step rings so they all have 52mm fronts. And then 3 rubber 52mm hoods to switch between them. They fold down tiny in my bag. Mattebox is not an option for me.

 

[John Bannister]

...makes a lot more sense now, again thank you Sergio, Great info!

Matt, again what a fantastic reply to my original post, your videos make me drool! exciting footage!

To your question on the Steadicam, no, its not for this gig rather than I would like to get my hands on one for some personal testing in regards a future purchase for some future projects. And I agree, chances are I would end up down a gully or under a truck if I tried to dance around the circuit with that rig on me I noticed that you didn't mention lenses? Sergio seems to be a support of the manual focus, I was wondering if you too used this technique of of you went with Auto-focus?

Guys thank you for the effort you have put into your replies, invaluable info and I appreciate you sharing!

 

[Matt Johnston]

John,

I havent gotten a chance to use RED Canon Autofocus yet. Hope I get my Scarlet w/Canon mount soon to try. If I am shooting camcorder (TM700, EX1, HPX etc) I use autofocus and go straight max ENG style. On DSLR, RED etc.. I have been using primes and manually focusing. Usually shooting at ~f8 or somewhere so my inaccuracy in focus pulling isn't as bad. I often use a 70-200 and manually focus without TOO much of a problem. But when it is a live event and you "cant" miss the shot I find it best to sometimes set focus at a certain point and let the car travel through my focal plane, as opposed to risking missing my focus pull which IMHO looks worse.

 

[PatrickW]

http://jannard.com/photography.html
This guy.

 

[Steve Marshall]

Just be careful where you stand!

From this years Le Mans 24 Hours - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW3NDGk6YQE