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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Another student advice. Questions on life and some on Post Production.

A

Andrew Jackson

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Hey guys,

First time poster, long time reader.

I am currently a freshman in a very reputable university in the Humanities faculty, but I really don't feel I belong here. I choose this faculty because I didn't want to follow everybody who got into business school, you get the idea.

Anyway, I'm thinking about going into film school as there's an okay one in this city with very low cost tuition fees, less than 10k USD for the three years (Oh, yeah, I am in Canada.)

The thing is that I have been into photography for some time now and I am quite fascinated with the post production process, I definitely feel I have a sense for colors, composition, etc. so I was thinking of going into Post Production, but I am pretty sure the workflow is insanely different and quite more difficult.

My question is mostly not about whether or not going to film school, but if getting into filming and post-production is a wise decision. As I said I have sense of doing those things, I don't want to become a director, that's for sure.

I am sure it is uber hard to get in the industry, as any creative field, but is t here a demand for cameraman/editors? I believe there are a lot of the former, so my high hopes for traveling around the world and shooting are quite irrelevant right?

This is pretty much it.

I am sorry if it's unclear - I hate that 'teenage-dont-know-what-to-do-period' of mine.

I just definitely want to get into something creative, and as I am not that creative, post-production and shooting will probably be sufficient.

Thanks in advance!
 
If you don't like sleep and you like computers, Post is a good place. There's a lot of work, and it seems like the entertainment business is suffering less than others. Outside the major production centers there is definitely a place for cameramen/editors, bigger budgets people tend to specialize further. If you DON'T want to be a director, you'll love film school, especially if you're a decent editor, or learning to be one. There will be TONS of mediocre work you can make a whole lot better, and probably a few spectacular things where you will be lucky to work with a surprise talent. Of course, maybe that's you!

Personally, I recommend english, history, and political science isntead of film school, because you're going to learn a lot of 'film school' stuff by doing it, not by talking about it or reading about it. That other stuff will make you a a better story teller in the the long run, even as an editor, and unless you're an avid reader and history buff, those things don't come up much in every day life or work.

Get yourself involved in a short film or two being done locally. If you enjoy it, rock on. If you find it tedious or stupid, don't waste your time in film school. Teach yourself Photoshop, After Effects, and Final Cut Pro (and/or Avid) and you'll be able to grab on to almost any other piece of software. Above all, if you want to be a good shooter and editor, watch the best- AFI top 100 is a good place to start. Then watch them again with the sound off. If this fascinates you, you might be looking at the right industry. If you're board, well... it can be a pretty boring career.

Hope that helps a little!

Greg@SecretHQ.com

www.secrethq.com
 
Canada is good for post, and can be rewarding (in canadian standards)
Standards are high so you better have a good personal reel.
Send me your demo and if right for the time I'll get you in touch who can take the advantage of you:)
 
While hearing a sane and realistic voice is refreshing in this industry I think you might have become too practical.

What do you enjoy doing? There are jobs everywhere for just about every position (except for director. :) ) So what you should work towards is far more about you than the job market.

Finding what you like is going to be a process of elimination. Whatever keeps you up till 3 am is what you'll stand the best shot of getting employed at. For instance right now if you're a 1/2 competant particle/FX guy for 3dsmax you're hired. But by the time you train up, that demand will probably pass. This'll be true of just about any below the line position.

If you enjoy photography and want to get into post, compositing or lighting TD might be your thing.
 
Check out fxguide.com and fxphd.com to see what's out there in the visual effects world.

2- To see what the production side is like, go work/volunteer as a PA on some productions (e.g. videoFACT music videos) and/or work as an extra. It may not be your cup of tea because there's long hours and you might not be indoors.
 
Thanks everybody! Really appreciating your responses!

This is what I am thinking based on your answers.

Film school:

Pro:
- Film lifestyle - studying film, doing film, breathing film
- I can invest or at least get my parents to help me to invest in a camera/workstation so that I learn everything in those 3 years.
- Contacts in the industry / better chances of getting a job.

Cons:
- Really outdated stuff. But does it matter?
- For digital I still have to learn everything by myself.

Not going to film school:

Getting a good degree, broader view, more possibilites (if I don't want to get into the industry I am not stuck with a film diploma).
I still have to invest for a camera/workstation, but it will be a lot less justifiable and I will probably have a lot less time to learn as in film school you get to produce at least one film per term.
And no industry contacts and a lesser possibility of a job.
Unless I just try to volunteer around and get some experience on sets.

I think the latter is a better option.
But the not having time and if the investment worth it is worrying me...
 
I once questioned whether to pursue editing versus cinematography, I had a knack for both... I decided I liked getting outside now & then for work, plus I like traveling.

It's a competitive business, so you have to follow your passions because that's the only thing that's going to push you to become the best and keep you going even when there's no work. If you don't have that passion and drive, then it's really just a hobby that you are dabbling in... and most people drop out soon.

It's like when I get the inevitable student question: "I'm interested in cinematography but I want to only read one book, so which one do you recommend?" If you truly were interested in cinematography, I couldn't stop you from reading every book out there that you can get you hands on, not to mention every magazine article. I couldn't stop you from watching hundreds of movies a year either. And I couldn't stop you from finding a camera and shooting with it. After all, someone who says they have a passion for Civil War history doesn't just read one book on the subject.

So follow your passions; it's a hard industry for people who aren't truly committed -- there are easier jobs out there.
 
I think passion is vital and without it you'd be struggling in anything that you do. I don't have ultimate passion for cinema, it's a big part of who I am, but it's not like I was 5 years old and I discovered a camera and started shooting and never dropped it ever since.

It's true those stories are coming from people who have achieved a lot in any industry, but if I don't know what I am 'really' passionate about shouldn't stop me from trying in something I feel like I belong and I have the skills to excel.

And those people are very rare.

I want to pursue a job in a creative field, I know I have a sense of aesthetics, and I think a position in cinematography/post-production would be very suitable for me. And I have done already something similar in photography and I know I can develop it to a greater extent.

But there are a lot of arising questions that I would like to share with people with knowledge, such as you are.

Thanks again.
 
- Contacts in the industry / better chances of getting a job.
Click to expand...
Not really... for Ontario universities, you can look up the employment statistics for graduates. Graduates from film and journalism programs tend to be less employed last time I checked.

IMO, going to film school doesn't really make a big difference in whether you will get employed. It mostly comes down to (A) whether you know what you're doing, do you have real work experience and (B) how good your people skills are. I don't think film school really makes a difference as to ultimate success.

You'll get employed faster if you don't go to film school.

2- I'd see what's out there first. There's a lot of different niches, everything from wedding videography (and some people do some really excellent work at that), to corporate video, to music videos, TV series, etc. etc. etc.
Look through the credits of any major blockbuster film and figure out what those jobs are.

Get some on-set experience and see what that is like.

Know what you're getting into (or what you'd like to get into).
 
Andrew Jackson said:
I think passion is vital and without it you'd be struggling in anything that you do. I don't have ultimate passion for cinema, it's a big part of who I am, but it's not like I was 5 years old and I discovered a camera and started shooting and never dropped it ever since.

It's true those stories are coming from people who have achieved a lot in any industry, but if I don't know what I am 'really' passionate about shouldn't stop me from trying in something I feel like I belong and I have the skills to excel.
Click to expand...

You're young, you may discover what really interests you later in life. I started making movies when I was 14, but I planned on becoming a doctor. I was only as a pre-med student that I changed my mind and decided to pursue filmmaking as a career. I didn't even go to film school until I was 26.

Personally, I believe that people bring more to the table when they come to filmmaking a little later in life because they have some experiences in the "real" world outside of movies, and they have built some knowledge on a wider range of topics that will make them a more well-rounded artist. I've met too many MFA's here in the U.S. who got a BA in some artform after going to an art high school... and don't even know when the Civil War took place or why it was significant in American history.

Or even more specifically in the film world, I've met cinematographers who have never seen a Japanese-language movie, never even heard of Ozu, Mizoguchi, etc. They started working as a loader during high school because their dad was a DP, they learned on the set, but they never learned the history of their own art form, let alone any other art form. Now occasionally this still produces a great DP who is simply a natural, but more often it produces a hack who just mimics whatever he saw on a set. "I need a Technocrane because the DP I used to work for always got a Technocrane..." sort of mentality.

The reasons I'm saying that you have to have passion is that it's a hard industry to break into and succeed in. So you have to be driven to excel simply to be at the same level as your competition, and you have to have the passion in order to withstand the rejections and long periods of unemployment, otherwise you're going to give up and find something easier to do.

Now having said that, there are jobs in this industry for what you may call "worker bees", the people that do all the heavy-lifting, the grunt work, the daily chores... I've worked with many crew members who are not passionate about filmmaking, or about their own jobs, gripping, whatever. But they will probably not rise far above their current positions.
 
Andrew Jackson said:
I am sure it is uber hard to get in the industry, as any creative field, but is t here a demand for cameraman/editors? I believe there are a lot of the former, so my high hopes for traveling around the world and shooting are quite irrelevant right?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I can't speek for Canada specifically but getting into post production is not that difficult if you have the passion for it and demonstrate that you can learn. Facilities will pay little to entry level personnel so count on not making a lot for a brief time.

Internships are a great way to get your foot in the door.
 
David, enormous thanks for taking time to answer and keep the dialogue alive. (I've known your stuff for some time now, so it's not like I don't know who I am speaking with) Also big thanks to Greg!

I know what you are saying about culture - I was raised in Eastern Europe and I speak almost fluently four languages. I am reading tons of books, studying Humanities, watching 'good' movies and I am around the time in my life to see my strengths and weaknesses. As I said, I've met some creative types and I definitely don't fall into this type of a person, but I have a strong sense of aesthetics and the part I was good in photography was Photoshop (and I don't mean filters and HDR's.) But I don't even think about going into this field, it's kind of boring to be honest. So this is how I ended up thinking about film production.

And I discovered something useful recently. Even boring tasks that I don't like even try hard and try to get to perfection I start enjoying them. Last example was cooking. Man, could I only make scrambled eggs. Did I hate cooking.... But couple of times of experiments and I find it lovely.

Anyways, to the original question, I will graduate with a BA, get to work around on sets and talk to people like you guys and see what happens!

Thanks again to everybody!
I really mean it.
 
By the age of 13 I had only seen Snow White, Ghostbuster and an episode of Dukes of Hazard. My mum write and illustrated childrens books and lesbian erotica and my Dad was a writer and pro photographer. TV was bad so were films. Photography, Art, Writing and seeing the world was good. Then i saw something that literally changed my life. In a small arthouse cinema in Nottingham I saw 'Eraserhead'. I have never ever forgotten that day since. That was the day that I realised what cinema could be...and I have never looked back.

I had no idea what to do with my life until I saw Eraserhead. I seemed to be pretty ok at everything...nothing really jumped out. We have work experience people in all the time why don't you go and do a couple weeks of work experience in a few places to get a feel for it.
 
For every child prodigy who knew what they wanted to do at age 5 there are 20 people who just accidentally fell into it who are equally sucessful.

You can't force success. So much of it is happen chance that the best you can do is stack the odds in your favor. In the end no advice will be helpful. You will end up doing what you want to do most. If that means film making then it doesn't matter what degree you get in college--you'll end up a film maker. If you don't enjoy film making you'll probably quit and find something else.

People tend to find equallibrium where they belong (ignoring financial and social prohibitions). By the time you graduate from college you'll feel no closer to being ready for any career regardless of your degree. It won't be for several years in an industry that you'll recognize in hindsight that at some point along the way you figured out enough to be confident in your skill.
 
I am getting this camera.

I am pretty certain, but money is tight. It's only $600. I think they will be my best 600 ever spent.

Oh, so many expenses, so little money ... :)

And I don't want to imagine what it's like buying a RED :sarcasm:
 
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