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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Announcing RED RAVEN

Milan Spasic said:
While I appreciate the $5000 credit, it's merely a compensation for the $10k worth of perfectly functional accessories that just got bricked and made obsolete because they don't work with the Weapon.
Epic Dragon packages were selling used for $25k on this very forum until Raven came out.

I dont want to appear negative, but nobody talks about this stuff and the discrepancy between prices and specs.
I think Red needs to hear both good and the bad.
While I want Red to keep their lights on, their customers need to do the same. It seems that a lot of us are shoveling cash into the bottomless pit that the upgrade path had become.

Raven will be a great camera but for those of us who put the deposit down for Weapon Mg that we may get in a year or so, all this makes less and less sense.
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Man, I sure hope my wife doesn't feel about my old tech and wants the newest and latest:)

I know RED meant and means serious investment and I always had to make the decision against it, because my once-in-a-while higher end jobs just don't justify owning (but renting).
So I suppose, everyone who made the decision for RED, knew his market, had the clients who wanted/appreciated/where willing to pay for RED footage.
How would all of this change, just because RED brought out a new cam?
 
For everyone knocking the crop factor of 4k on the Raven... its the same crop factor as 4k on the RED Weapon, EPIC/Scarlet Dragon.... which is 1.34x when compared to Super 35mm 4-perf. A 18mm lens at 4k on the Dragon/Weapon gives you 24.2mm FOV.

Now this is where the beauty of Dragon/Weapon 6k comes into play... the crop factor on a 18mm lens at 6k full res is .9x which gives you a 16.2mm FOV. You guys comparing a Raven to a Dragon must be crazy!!!! Its literally not in the same visual ball park at full resolution 6k. A full 8mm difference in FOV at 6k full res vs 4k... is amazing. So we have a 19.4 megapixel sensor vs a 8.8 megapixels sensor with a full 8mm difference in FOV.

Lets stop the hype. A Raven is good for what it is... its an awesome camera for the specs and price. A EPIC/Weapon Dragon is a beast... and a Raven is just a cool bird... lol.
 
Andrae Palmer said:
For everyone knocking the crop factor of 4k on the Raven... its the same crop factor as 4k on the RED Weapon, EPIC/Scarlet Dragon.... which is 1.34x when compared to Super 35mm 4-perf. A 18mm lens at 4k on the Dragon/Weapon gives you 24.2mm focal length.

Now this is where the beauty of Dragon/Weapon 6k comes into play... the crop factor on a 18mm lens at 6k full res is .9x which gives you a 16.2mm focal length. You guys comparing a Raven to a Dragon must be crazy!!!! Its literally not in the same visual ball park at full resolution 6k. A full 8mm difference in focal length at 6k full res vs 4k... is amazing. So we have a 19.4 megapixel sensor vs a 8.8 megapixels sensor with a full 8mm difference in focal length. Lets stop the hype. A Raven is good for what it is... its an awesome camera for the specs and price. A Dragon is a beast... and a Raven is just a bird... lol.
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I do agree with you...

...but don't do the focal-length math, it is just wrong. A 18mm doesn't become a 24mm or 16mm, it's a 18mm on all sensor-sizes. The size of the sensor changes the FOV you get, but all other characteristics stay the same, most importantly geometry/distortion/compression.

When your sensor-size changes you have two options to compensate, change the distance to your subject and/or change the focal length. Both ways come with pro and cons and in the end images will always look different on different sensor-sizes, no matter how you compensate. Going further away from your subject increases the DOF to begin with, but using a different lens gives you even more changed bits.

I said different, not worse (or better). But i think this FF35 shallow-depth-of-field look got a bit over-used in the last few years, up to a level where it's distracting and sometimes just feels ugly wrong.

I tend to choose a focal length for other things than FOV first, hence i would love to shoot with that 8k-VV-sensor at some point. ;)

And thank you Jarred for the hints about a Scarlet-Path. Very much appreciated.
 
One question that hasn't been asked: does the RAVEN have the gyros? (which hopefully get used in a future RCX-stabilizer-module :D )
 
Jarred, do you plan on offering a camera in the future with built-in ND (not like the current motion mount where it cannot go clear) or another unique solution? I would love to have a super run and gun camera where no ND faders or matte box/filters were needed for some shoots. Overall, nice work on the camera, but I really do wish this camera had that... You know... DVX style :-)
 
someone knocked jarred off his horse while we were talking about power situations last night, stop complaining about a great deal, you always risk new techinology coming out years after you bought the old one…anyway...

so yeah, the jetpack, i guess the only option is lemo dc in though, with a belt clip?
i love the idea and functions of it, but we need an even simpler, get up and go b-cam solution, just a basic on board battery connector with a basic hdmi output, no frills, no sound, no sdi... $500-600 range, keeping it simple, affordable and indie. i have no reason to make the raven a big studio camera, or one with a lot of dangling off components, one case, get on a plane, roll on to set, open it up and shoot!
 
Jarred Land said:
IPlease don't let the handcuffs of legacy paralyze us into being average.
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I think this is my favorite quote ever.

Jarred, as a recent Epic Dragon owner, I personally love RAVEN (placed a deposit).

My only suprise was how affordable some of my favorite features would be - DSMC2 form factor, prores, and autoblackshade specifically.

If there was any way to make a WEAPON ALUMINUM that sits btw RAVEN and MAGNESIUM Id trade up in a heart beat.

Id be happy losing 3D LUTS for example. And even getting a more streamlined "package" like what comes with RAVEN (as you say most DSMC accesories willl work fine!).

Congrats again on releasing yet another ground breaking camera. You guys never cease to amaze!
 
Nick Morrison said:
If there was any way to make a WEAPON ALUMINUM that sits btw RAVEN and MAGNESIUM Id trade up in a heart beat.
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I think we should give the guy some rest and just celebrate the birth of this amazing and earth-shattering new camera called RAVEN. Jarred has already hinted there is somethng in the works for Scarlet-Owners, which i think is something close to what you just described and what many others repeatendly have been asking for. RED heard us, RED listens (if RAVEN isn't proof of that i don't know).

Congrats again on releasing yet another ground breaking camera. You guys never cease to amaze!
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Exactly... I'm very excited for RAVEN. It's an amazing tool with so much potential, really something bigger than we all already think it is. I'm pretty sure we all will profit from RAVEN in many ways, even those who don't get one.

BTW, Deposit placed, finally... It's damn hard to resist. Impossible.

And now i'm looking forward to that DSMC²-replacement for Scarlet. ;)
 
I think RED has gone a long way from trying to redefine EVERYTHING to be disruptive, to a newer approach of being disruptive but "making it work" with Weapon and Raven.
Makes me really a lot more confident on the things to come.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
I think RED has gone a long way from trying to redefine EVERYTHING to be disruptive, to a newer approach of being disruptive but "making it work" with Weapon and Raven.
Makes me really a lot more confident on the things to come.
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100% agreed.
 
Nick Morrison said:
I think this is my favorite quote ever.

Jarred, as a recent Epic Dragon owner, I personally love RAVEN (placed a deposit).

My only suprise was how affordable some of my favorite features would be - DSMC2 form factor, prores, and autoblackshade specifically.

If there was any way to make a WEAPON ALUMINUM that sits btw RAVEN and MAGNESIUM Id trade up in a heart beat.

Id be happy losing 3D LUTS for example. And even getting a more streamlined "package" like what comes with RAVEN (as you say most DSMC accesories willl work fine!).

Congrats again on releasing yet another ground breaking camera. You guys never cease to amaze!
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I feel exactly the same way. Also placed deposit on Raven too. One other thing to add here is that with Raven we will have purchased some of the AKS already so that could also make for different style of upgrade to a Weapon later.
And if over time it is possible to do a Weapon Lite with no AKS etc for Dragon upgraders that would be so nice.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
I think RED has gone a long way from trying to redefine EVERYTHING to be disruptive, to a newer approach of being disruptive but "making it work" with Weapon and Raven.
Makes me really a lot more confident on the things to come.
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Yup, i have the same feeling.
 
Maik Müller said:
I think we should give the guy some rest and just celebrate the birth of this amazing and earth-shattering new camera called RAVEN. Jarred has already hinted there is somethng in the works for Scarlet-Owners, which i think is something close to what you just described and what many others repeatendly have been asking for. RED heard us, RED listens (if RAVEN isn't proof of that i don't know).
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I hope tough it will be an upgrade based solely on the scarlet dragon and not on the epic which already has one. I would not want to be in a situation where the upgrade is out of reach again or damn expensive because of super high features. The scarlet dragon is the real replacement of arriflex, arricam, etc, nothing overkill, just S35 with a bit of slowmotion. Weapon body, better compression and better slowmo and that's it :)
 
Jarred Land said:
Please don't let the handcuffs of legacy paralyze us into being average.
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This is good news. Really.

Obsolescence Obsolete being bandied about is/was hand cuffing and was not always followed through on anyways.

Obsolescence Obsolete is now [takes off sunglasses] obsolete.
 
Jarred Land said:
But we shouldn't fear or punish each other for trying to do things that are better, faster ,smaller, cheaper. Because in the end, we all win.

Please don't let the handcuffs of legacy paralyze us into being average.
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Dude. You're starting to sound a little like Jim there... ;)
 
Maik Müller said:
I tend to choose a focal length for other things than FOV first, hence i would love to shoot with that 8k-VV-sensor at some point. ;)
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This sounds confusing to me. I usually choose the point from where I look at the scene as this is the factor that defines the image. From there you will choose the fitting focal length which of course is depending on the sensor size.
 
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