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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Announcing RED RAVEN

Kemalettin Sert said:
i have EPIC-X DRAGON, upgrade credit 15.500$ is an awesome deal!Plus i get 5000$ accessory credit! really appreciate the offer you guys giving.
You guys are the only company doing this <3
Only downside im having which way i should go :) MG or CF , still cant decide.
Click to expand...

While I appreciate the $5000 credit, it's merely a compensation for the $10k worth of perfectly functional accessories that just got bricked and made obsolete because they don't work with the Weapon.
Epic Dragon packages were selling used for $25k on this very forum until Raven came out.

I dont want to appear negative, but nobody talks about this stuff and the discrepancy between prices and specs.
I think Red needs to hear both good and the bad.
While I want Red to keep their lights on, their customers need to do the same. It seems that a lot of us are shoveling cash into the bottomless pit that the upgrade path had become.

Raven will be a great camera but for those of us who put the deposit down for Weapon Mg that we may get in a year or so, all this makes less and less sense.
 
Milan Spasic said:
While I appreciate the $5000 credit, it's merely a compensation for the $10k worth of perfectly functional accessories that just got bricked and made obsolete because they don't work with the Weapon.
Epic Dragon packages were selling used for $25k on this very forum until Raven came out.

I dont want to appear negative, but nobody talks about this stuff and the discrepancy between prices and specs.
I think Red needs to hear both good and the bad.
While I want Red to keep their lights on, their customers need to do the same. It seems that a lot of us are shoveling cash into the bottomless pit that the upgrade path had become.

Raven will be a great camera but for those of us who put the deposit down for Weapon Mg that we may get in a year or so, all this makes less and less sense.
Click to expand...

EPIC-X Brain only price is 24.000 $ on Red Store.Red is offering 15.500 $ for trade in plus 5000 $ accessory credit.Which makes it you are gonna use the camera for 2 years and sell it from 20.500 $ i would say this a killer deal!
only thing that doesnt work weapon is cards and modules? You can sell those too.i got 256Gig Redmags used from 1000$ and can sell it from same price tomorrow :)
Only thing thats not working with weapon in my package is Battery Module and Side Handle.I can sell those from a good price.
Batteries,LCDs,EVFs,Cables,Redvolts,Bridgeplates,PL and EF mounts,Top handles Swat Rails etc. works like a charm!
 
Nick Morrison said:
Yes, but Standard OLPF on DMSC2 may be just as clean as LLO on DMSC1...with better highlights...
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Well I'm not sure anyone will really notice the difference in some real world situations. Weapon is half a stop cleaner than Epic in the shadows. LLO is 1-1.3 stops cleaner than STH. Standard being in the middle we're not talking about a super noticeable difference. But the standard is a great thing.
 
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Milan Spasic said:
It seems that a lot of us are shoveling cash into the bottomless pit that the upgrade path had become.
Click to expand...

I would hardly say the upgrade program is a bottomless pit. It is dollar for dollar the best program in the industry. Brent posted the math already in another thread.


Milan Spasic said:
"While I appreciate the $5000 credit, it's merely a compensation for the $10k worth of perfectly functional accessories that just got bricked "
Click to expand...

Funny how generosity rather quickly turns into expectation. Sorry you feel that way.

BTW Epic MX, Scarlet MX, Epic Dragon and Scarlet Dragon have shared each other's accessories through its form factor for 2 generations of sensors for 5 years. That is along time in this technology driven industry.

And most of the accessories that your Epic and Scarlet used can be used on Weapon.. All the monitors... All the batteries, Even the MiniMags if you rolled over to those in the last year or so on your cameras.

Our tick-tock path is pretty predictable..

Red One ( new body ) and then Red One MX ( new sensor ) . Then upgrade path to Epic/Scarlet MX ( new body ) . And then to Epic/Scarlet Dragon ( new sensor ) . Then Weapon Dragon ( new body ) and then ( TBA)

There are a few new holes along the way that we can fill as we get better at what we do ... RAVEN is one of them.

Epic has a path forward into the new form factor, Scarlet will see a path forward to the new form factor, then there will be a new sensor in a few years, and then a few years after that the cycle repeats all over again.



But listen.. I get it. Raven is a pretty bad-ass little camera. It is a fucking rock star in many ways... and hence I can understand how it may feel like it is biting at some of the bigger boys' ankles.

That "whatever-is-newest--I-hate-it-if-i-dont-have-it-or-if-i-just-bought-the-last-one" comes with evolution. That's how it works. I know its not always pretty.

But we shouldn't fear or punish each other for trying to do things that are better, faster ,smaller, cheaper. Because in the end, we all win.

Please don't let the handcuffs of legacy paralyze us into being average.
 
Nick Morrison said:
Also, for those looking for a wide, the Sigma 18-35 1.8 would be a great option, as would the Tokina 11-16 2.8.
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The Canon 16-35is f4 has become my favorite hand held, run and gun lens, slower than the Sigma or Tokina but great is, sharp, light and tough, It will live on the Raven.
 
Jarred Land said:
I would hardly say the upgrade program is a bottomless pit. It is dollar for dollar the best program in the industry. Brent posted the math already in another thread.




Funny how generosity rather quickly turns into expectation. Sorry you feel that way.

BTW Epic MX, Scarlet MX, Epic Dragon and Scarlet Dragon have shared each other's accessories through its form factor for 2 generations of sensors for 5 years. That is along time in this technology driven industry.

And most of the accessories that your Epic and Scarlet used can be used on Weapon.. All the monitors... All the batteries, Even the MiniMags if you rolled over to those in the last year or so on your cameras.

Our tick-tock path is pretty predictable..

Red One ( new body ) and then Red One MX ( new sensor ) . Then upgrade path to Epic/Scarlet MX ( new body ) . And then to Epic/Scarlet Dragon ( new sensor ) . Then Weapon Dragon ( new body ) and then ( TBA)

There are a few new holes along the way that we can fill as we get better at what we do ... RAVEN is one of them.

Epic has a path forward into the new form factor, Scarlet will see a path forward to the new form factor, then there will be a new sensor in a few years, and then a few years after that the cycle repeats all over again.



But listen.. I get it. Raven is a pretty bad-ass little camera. It is a fucking rock star in many ways... and hence I can understand how it may feel like it is biting at some of the bigger boys' ankles.

That "whatever-is-newest--I-hate-it-if-i-dont-have-it-or-if-i-just-bought-the-last-one" comes with evolution. That's how it works. I know its not always pretty.

But we shouldn't fear or punish each other for trying to do things that are better, faster ,smaller, cheaper. Because in the end, we all win.

Please don't let the handcuffs of legacy paralyze us into being average.
Click to expand...


Absolutely right! It goes the same with all technology, but no one does it like RED offering upgrade programs. No one does and yet somehow people loose their shit when Red comes out with disruptive technology. I really don't get it. What, so is RED suppossed to keep the same form factor and specs just so that we can keep using our accesories eternally? I do not see how anyone, a n y o n e could ever foresee exactly where technology is going. Seriously, I would have never ever afforded to get where I am hadn't it been for the upgrade program. Started with Scarlet, then Epic, nor Epic Dragon. My pocket has not hurt one bit cause I've done it in my own time, when it's been sensible, and I will continue doing the same. Do people not remember what shitty 1080 HD Cinema cameras use to cost?

Thanks RED, you guys have been a game changer not only for the small guys like me, but for the whole industry. Raven is a killer of a camera, seriously, not only for it's specs, but for what it will do to the market and future generations of filmmakers. However, somehow, there are people out there who want more specs, and a cheaper camera. Really? Want more specs? Work hard and buy the next model up! Want it even cheaper than what it already is? Buy a cheaper camera, there are so many out there. Funny thing is that if you would then compare the specs and features of a cheaper camera, you would see that it would actually be a more expensive camera than a Raven, once you compare what you get for what you pay!

And no, I'm not a fan boy, I just highly respect a company that has gone out of the way to help the whole film industry.

Rant over
 
Brent@RED said:
Let's run some numbers. Assume you had your camera before NAB 2015...

* I assume you have an EPIC-X DRAGON. The MG Upgrade Package is retail $39,890. We are offering bundle for $34,500. You save $5390 there.
* Then you get upgrde credit of you brain of $15,500.
* You are paying a net $19,000 to trade in a brain and get back a bundle.
* Then you get an additional $5000 accessory credit.

You'd like us to take that net (including credits) from $14,000 to $10,000?

I think you guys know we are all for taking care of people already in the pipeline. But us handing over $44,890 (retail price of gear plus accessory credit) to get back $19,000 in cash plus a used brain is already near un-Business 101. Knock off another $4000?

Sorry, I know I am having my one rant for the thread, but at some point, we do have to keep the lights on at RED. I'd like some examples of other companies doing what we are doing, with trade-ins and credits specifically designed to help those already in the RED family growing as out technology grows.

At some point, the model just breaks....
Click to expand...


RED have been insanely generous with their upgrade programs from day one. At this point I'll just refer to this post:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ogram-begins&p=1183686&viewfull=1#post1183686

attachment.php


I'm now going to run the risk of pissing off people I admire and respect by giving it to you straight:

I agree with your analysis - how you break down the numbers above; I think the Weapon upgrade deal is OK. Maybe not as generous as the Stage 3 Epic deal - but no-one expected it to be.

That's not the problem; I think Weapon is overpriced - especially the CF ones. I can't justify that statement; I can't put numbers on it; it's a gut feeling. But my gut feeling is that Weapon represents less bang for the buck than we've come to expect from RED.

BTW Brent - you have a website snafu - and have had for a good while. When I select Weapon Mg upgrade in the store I see the following:

SKU# W-MG-UP-DEP
CAMERAS TO BE EXECUTED

{:zero=>"You do not have any eligible BRAINs to upgrade.", :one=>"You have 1 BRAIN that can be upgraded to the RED DRAGON® sensor. Select which ones you'd like to upgrade.", :other=>"You have 1 BRAINs that can be upgraded to the RED DRAGON® sensor. Select which ones you'd like to upgrade."}
  • EPIC-X02229
Ummm EPIC 02229 became a Dragon a long time ago...

Mike
 
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Milan Spasic said:
Epic Dragon packages were selling used for $25k on this very forum until Raven came out.
Click to expand...

Where are these new great deals? I'm looking through the market place... how much can I get a EPIC Dragon brain for now? I don't see any evidence of what you are saying. It would be extremely silly for people to be dropping the price of their EPIC Dragon just because of the Raven.... especially when they have an upgrade program from RED that can protect the price point of the camera.... doesn't make any sense. I own an EPIC Dragon... I'm not going to lose my head like a fool and sell it at a rock bottom price... why would anyone do that... when RED has a generous upgrade program still going and the Specs beat an EPIC MX and a Scarlet Dragon and a Raven?

Now with that being said... I can see how the used price perception of the Scarlet Dragon, Scarlet MX and EPIC MX would be affected. I know many of my RED friends out there... making money in the industry... still holding onto the EPIC Dragon... they just don't see a compelling reason to switch to Weapon. If you ordered a Weapon... don't be second guessing yourself while you wait... in this game you just got to run with what you've got until it can't run no more. Amazing that some of my friends that I met at REDuser day back in 2008 are still shooting on a RED One MX. That is value... lets not lose our heads.
 
Karel Šimůnek;1549397 said:
Is there a new side handle for Raven/Weapon?
Click to expand...

There is one, soon to be announced
 
Going through the last few pages in this thread i have to say i had a few Deja-vu-moments... ;)
 
One thing i'm curious about is how this will affect the ARRI alexa market. This camera does 98% of the stuff Alexa does at 10% of the price (and weight too!) Image quality is also very close. Red has come a long way in terms of reliability. Raven could be a true winner.
 
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