Angenieux 28-340mm and DRAGON upgrade???

[Gaston Fazio]

Hi all:
Maybe you guys can help me... I want to order the new Angenieux 28-340mm zoom, but I have no idea if the Dragon upgrade will have a sensor size change.
It is a lot of money to take the risk.

Any idea?

 

[Zeb B]

It would be very helpful to have the full physical specs on Dragon (and sensor gate port modification if that is going to happen) so someone smarter than me can update the Lens Compatibility matrix. Lot's of lens choices to be made in the months leading up to Dragon. Would hate to have some of those no workie

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

Jim stated that the size of the Dragon sensor is 30 x 15.8mm with a pixel size of 5 microns.

As far as that particular lens, James Mathers had this clip posted in Studio Daily:

http://www.studiodaily.com/2012/04/nab-video-more-from-angenieux/

Jean-Marc confirms 5K coverage. 6K was not specifically addressed.

 

[Zeb B]

I read the post - 6K coverage, minimum lens resolution and proposed port mods are the question.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Remember guys that coverage in any lens, is not dictated by the 4k/5k/6/ or even up to 8k coverage of the Leica Cine lenses, but it is to be solly determined by the IMAGE CIRCLE the lenses cover, and determining what will be the IMAGE CIRCLE of the DRAGON Sensors, only this will give accurate information on which lenses will cover DRAGON.

 

[Evin Grant]

I would not concern yourself with 6K coverage, from what I've read 5K on Dragon will fall within a standard S35 image circle. This is great news since that allows for oversampling 4K with all existing lenses. 6K will most likely be useful for stills and VFX work but I don't see it being a standard choice for cinema. That being said Jean Marc did mention that the circle is actually larger than the full Epic frame so it may well cover Dragon anyway.

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

Remember guys that coverage in any lens, is not dictated by the 4k/5k/6/ or even up to 8k coverage of the Leica Cine lenses, but it is to be solly determined by the IMAGE CIRCLE the lenses cover, and determining what will be the IMAGE CIRCLE of the DRAGON Sensors, only this will give accurate information on which lenses will cover DRAGON.

That's why the sensor size was referred to in the earlier post #3 (30 x 15.8mm) as part of the answer to the original query.
From the size of the sensor, you extract the image circle using the Pythagorean theorem as Mike Halper did somewhere in the Dragon thread. He came up with a number of 33.9 as the diagonal of the sensor. (30 x 30) + (15.8 x 15.8) = (33.9 x 33.9).
That is close enough to 34 to call it that. However, I believe that Bruce Allen came up with a different number of 33.5 on another user site.

We have a number of months of verification between RED and lens manufacturers to get accurate information inserted into tables we can use.
Earlier is better - purchasing decisions will be made hopefully using verified versus anecdotal data.
Considering backorder time for good glass, tomorrow is not soon enough - we are, after all, a tough lot to please.

Jim did mention that the Dragon sensor was slightly larger in size than the current EPIC sensor - and using a smaller pixel size of 5 microns - also quoted earlier in the thread.

Interesting to note that the new sensor brings us closer to ASP-H (28.7 x 19mm)

And yeah, Evin has very valid points.

 

[Zeb B]

How abouts we justs post the exact Dragon image circle and skip the dern math quiz and mystery??

That's assuming the final sensor design is done I guess

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Based on the info leaked so far, plan on a 34mm image circle for full coverage of Dragon. Although, like Evin points out above, 5K on Dragon should fit within the standard S35 frame and 4.5K should be close to Academy 35, similar to the 4K frame we have now with the M/MX sensors. Until RED gives the exact specs, we don't know for sure. Pixel size is said to be 5 microns, but we don't know the specific active pixel dimensions. For example, is "6K" a full 6144 pixels wide, or is it an even 6000 or some other number?

 

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

Hmmm, since Cooke Panchro/i's (biggest image circle of the Cookes) are 33.54mm... I think they will cover, yes? Seems the image circle is going to be in the 33/34mm range... and 33.54 isn't too far off.

If it's 34mm, I'm thinking 460um's isn't anything to worry about.

 

[Yousuf Abbasi]

The new Angenieux's image circle (diameter) is 31.4mm. In order to fully cover the sensor, the sensor's diagonal needs to be less than (or equal) to 31.4mm.

You don't need to know exact pixel size of the sensor, even an approximation will let you know whether the image will cover or not. All you need to know is what are the maximum dimensions of a sensor that will cover 31.4mm image diameter? That is simply calculated as 28mm x 14.7mm (assuming sensor maintain's W:H ratio of 1.9:1).

Therefore, any sensor larger than 28mm x 14.7mm will cause the Angenieux lens to not cover entirely. A proposed Dragon size of 30mm x 15.8mm would thus seem to be too large for the Angie.